Taucointalk

Bounties & Rewards => TAU Bounties => Bounty => Topic started by: imorpheus on October 16, 2018, 03:03:31 AM

Title: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on October 16, 2018, 03:03:31 AM
Summary: an experimental green, secure and pervasive crypto currency without inflation
Breakthrough ideas
- proof of transaction
- permission-less mobile mining network
- fight 51% attack

Detail The plan for next 12 months is bold and intensive in following areas.
- Accumulated transaction history in an address will determine the probability to generate next block.
- Mining has to be permission-less and low computing power for mobile device. It shall not encourage hardware arms race or asset hoarding.
- Fight 51% attack — 51% attack is unavoidable on decentralized ledger according to Satoshi. With 51% power, one can do both short range (double spend, censorship) and long range attack. Checkpoint is used to contain long range attack in all POS, TAU will inherit that. For short-range attack, when POT blockchain lives 10 years, in order to secure 51% POT power, one need to either secure enough miners’ private keys to get power or build own power for same time period years. The older the chain, the harder to achieve due to time can not be created.

To achieve pervasiveness, TAU faucet and bounty program will last multiple years to give non-coiners basic TAU to begin with crypto currency experience, until we used up 82% reserve.

We invite you to debate above points. The bounty reward is 10M tau and waiting for you to take.

-12 months - 10 million TAU Debate Bounty Mechanics;
- Winners will be determined WEEKLY thru voting.
- We encourage the criticism. (Pointing out the flaws, followed by making a suggestion or proposed solution)
- The team will choose the up to 5 qualified participants weekly.
- The chosen 5 will be subject to voting system.
- Winners will be evaluated into three (3) voting category
  33.33% for the Twitter
  33.33% for the Telegram
  33.333% for the Discord
- Voting will last for 24hours only. (No extension)
- There will be three (3) winners, 1st, 2nd and 3rd respectively.
- Reward will be as follows;
  1st Prize; 100,000 TAU
  2nd Prize; 60,000 TAU
  3rd Prize; 40,000 TAU
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Naruto uzumay on October 16, 2018, 11:35:56 PM
Hi admin in my opinion in the transaction history there is a report who sent TAUcoin to us   
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Crypts on October 21, 2018, 03:17:07 PM
Hi admin in my opinion in the transaction history there is a report who sent TAUcoin to us

What transaction do you mean?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Jerrison42k4 on October 22, 2018, 01:36:40 AM
What transaction do you mean?

all he is saying is a suggestion that there should be a memo description of any transaction made. for record purposes
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on October 22, 2018, 03:32:54 PM
Summary: an experimental fast, fair and secure crypto currency without inflation
Breakthrough ideas
- proof of transaction
- permission-less mobile mining network
- adjustable block numbers to speed up
- minority rebellion from 51% power censorship attack
Innovative ideas - “on-chain” mining club and rewarding, delegation, epochs
Community service - TAUX, faucet and bounty, Tau Capital for startup

Detail The plan for next 12 months is bold and intensive in following areas.
- Accumulated transaction fees within certain time in a mining club will determine the probability of the club leader to generate next block, and prevent spam.
- Mining has to be permission-less and low computing power for mobile device. It shall not encourage hardware arms race or asset hoarding.
- Past research shows that the block time delay is required by “handing over” generation right to others include decision and communication. Under consensus, TAU shall achieve scaling by permitting the same generator to produce “multiple blocks” when high transaction volume happening.
- 51% attack to perform censorship and double-spending is considered unavoidable on block chain. However, through rotating a number of epochs, each epoch consists certain number of blocks. Limitting one generator in its epoch and prohibit the same generator to produce blocks in upcoming epochs, from rotating perspective, the 51% power is not able to censorship the network. Double spending problem is contained as well.

Along with above key ideas, Tau enacts onchain mining club and efficient “club wiring” to reward massive club members after every check-point on public ledger to avoid leader corruption. If not mining by themselves, members shall delegate mining effort to club leader. The multiple epoch idea allows low power mining club to have higher chances to generate blocks, because high power clubs contained in previous winning epochs. The more epochs for rotating, the low entry barrier to win blocks and higher security for the network.
To increase community satisfaction, we will operate Tau exchange (TAUX), an automatic swap of TAU and BTC investment pools four times a day. TAU capital will invest TAU app entrepreneurs.
To achieve pervasiveness, TAU faucet and bounty program will last multiple years to give non-coiners basic TAU to begin with crypto currency experience, until we used up 82% reserve.

We invite you to debate above points. The bounty reward is 10M tau and waiting for you to take.
On-going white paper is https://www.taucoin.io/whitePaper/TAU%20White%20Paper%20v0.4.pdf

Debate Bounty Mechanics;
- Winners will be determined WEEKLY thru voting.
- We encourage the criticism. (Pointing out the flaws, followed by making a suggestion or proposed solution)
- The team will choose the up to 5 qualified participants weekly.
- The chosen 5 will be subject to voting system.
- Winners will be evaluated into three (3) voting category
  33.33% for the Twitter
  33.33% for the Telegram
  33.333% for the Discord
- Voting will last for 24hours only. (No extension)
- There will be three (3) winners, 1st, 2nd and 3rd respectively.
- Reward will be as follows;
  1st Prize; 100,000 TAU
  2nd Prize; 60,000 TAU
  3rd Prize; 40,000 TAU
- Winners will be posted in TAU Telegram and Discord channel https://discordapp.com/invite/ydhx3um[/color]

Can I use this thread for the bounty?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on October 22, 2018, 03:40:02 PM
Yes
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on October 23, 2018, 09:20:26 AM
Requirements for the dApps that would be built on TAU Blockchain (Consider also for Tau Mobile Mining App)

Support For Majority Users
It should be powerful enough so that, millions of users can freely utilise it. This is especially true for DAPPs that are looking for mainstream acceptance.

Free of Charge
The platform should enable the devs to create dapps which are free to use for their users. No user should have to pay the platform to gain the benefits of a dapp. I notices something great and different from TAU Coin management, via developer and startup bounties, developers are paid and so they harmoniously work hand in hand with the team to built TAU and make it unique. This is appreciated. 

Easily Upgradable
The platform should limitless give freedom to developers to upgrade the dApp when its required. Also, if some bug does affect the dApps, the devs should be able to fix while the platform remains unaffected. It should not appear to shut down the activities, this will affect users and can lead into less trust to the platforms.

Smooth running ( With Low Latency)
The smooth running of a platform is very important aspect of project. TAU dApps should run as smoothly as possible and with the lowest possible latency..
 
Performance
In order to save time,  TAU platform should allow their dApps to be processed parallelly in order to distribute the workload. However, not all the functions on a blockchain should be done that way. Think of transaction execution itself. Multiple transactions can’t be executed in parallel; it needs to be done one at a time to avoid errors like double spends

Some, if not all of the above recommendations, therefore, should be sorted and worked upon developing TAUX, they would help to provide more scalability and prospers in that direction. Enough testing also is vital prior to the launch and use, so that to be sure on smooth running of the service.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Naruto uzumay on October 23, 2018, 08:30:33 PM
in my opinion you don't need to build TAUx you are quite focused on TAUcoin blokchain because this is the best there are many exchanges we can enter the exchange if TAUcoin is ready I'm sure TAUcoin is good for long-term investments
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on October 24, 2018, 12:45:44 AM
Agree, right now making proof of transaction on mobile is the key. We will not support smart contract since that’s not essential for currency.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Fritz1603 on October 24, 2018, 12:13:28 PM
On my opinion, You are TAU, and we believe in TAU, your project is amazing coz we are here due to your awesome project, people now a days are not into market because some of them dont know how to use market, if taucoin will be line up in thousands of coins in market how or what is the possibility of taucoin to boost its value? Or how tau will be a popular coins if still btc eth bch etc is on top of the marketcap? I believe TAU-X is still the best project... We may be not on top of high value coins but TAU will be know on its TAU-X having its own direction point of value in every round of pool... If i will be to choose? Market or TAU-X? I will go to TAU-X, you can also add eth bch in TAU-X by batch or scheduled and for sure this will be rocket all around the universe. 
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Mr. Wolf on October 24, 2018, 01:49:54 PM
Can I use this thread for the bounty?

Topics should be posted here as what genie854 is doing in Not allowed other forum name. If possible, we should focus the consensus debate here in taucointalk more so that aside from getting a lot of traffic in here, it would be easier to find threads as we mostly have TAUcoin discussions here. It should be implemented as soon as possible. This is to avoid confusion from two forums.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on October 24, 2018, 05:52:12 PM
Yes, we should focus debate here. TAU starts off a community coin. Now with clear dev plan to developer POT main net on full mobile prior to feb 1st. during the meantime, we will not do too much on valuation and exchange, just let it flow and enjoy the season.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on October 25, 2018, 07:15:52 AM
Yes, we should focus debate here. TAU starts off a community coin. Now with clear dev plan to developer POT main net on full mobile prior to feb 1st. during the meantime, we will not do too much on valuation and exchange, just let it flow and enjoy the season.

As stated before, mining is very important function when speaking about Proof of transaction. The more miners in the network, the more secure the network become. With the dev focus, the following may be put into consideration regarding the permissions less Mobile mining under POT.

Tau App mobile Miner
Should be developed with built in miner, completely configured, easily and ready to mine with a click of a button.

Earning TAU can be achieved through,
verify transactions and by the time spent on the network with the miner activated so that to be rewarded. If possible, let the miner app work in background while free continues using mobile device. (But am not so such encouraging the use of time spent to reward miners to avoid time manipulators, otherwise the team would look onto this).

Internet connection is required to connect with the mining network, send  and receive TAU transactions. (Monitoring indicator icons should be built in).

Sending and receiving TAU Coins transactions in a fast, fair and secure p2p network should be allowed between Android and iOS (all mobile OS).

The application should be designed to function seamlessly with user's device usage. Extensive beta and alpha testing should be undertaken to ensure the Mining app doesn't disrupt phone behaviour and functionality.

On the bases of standard user behaviour, both data plan and Wi-Fi be combined in the long run to preveng drastic data usage.

Partnership with mobile manufacturing companies/providers should also be put in focus to start negotiations in pre-loading of the TAU mobile app on smartphones to drive acquisition.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Slamsugio on October 26, 2018, 04:55:25 AM
How if make some game dice coin using tau coin.when tau hasbeen list at market.maybe it will make taucoin be popular and introduce for many people
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on October 26, 2018, 03:42:40 PM
How if make some game dice coin using tau coin.when tau hasbeen list at market.maybe it will make taucoin be popular and introduce for many people
That's awesome, I won't wait for it, go for it, yes in fact, iMorpheus promised that the first app will be shown on the website, and it will receive more bounty reward, so I personally encourage you go ahead of this very best dream, plan it, make it simple, an we can have the first game based on Taucoin, that's very possible my friend, make the dream come true mate
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on October 26, 2018, 04:09:02 PM
In today's mobile-based democratization of mining activity would simultaneously drive down mining costs dramatically by distributing mining activities across a widening array of mobile phones globally, and increase cryptocurrency legitimization given the huge swaths of people previously disengaged from mining whose activity would produce entirely new value for more cryptocurrencies, increasing investment into cryptocurrency as a whole Among the cryptocurrencies leading in this regard, I hope, TAU coin will stand out.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on October 26, 2018, 04:55:05 PM
We are currently building a game “tau monopoly” to make user to gain more power and coins at andriod app. This is to prepare the community for full mobile mining.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Fritz1603 on October 28, 2018, 04:55:44 PM
Last night as i was walking goin home from work, i am holding my phone while thinking about tau, and then i whispered "im gettin crazy" and smiled.. and then when i look back from where i came from i didnt notice that ive been walking for almost 20 mins...

My idea is i got into that scenario, all of us carrying our mobile phone where ever we go when we go out, is it possible if we can be a partner of some app that can detect the distance that youve been walking and then you get paid by tau depends on the distance, all of us go out and work, shopping, having vacation in some other place, visiting our relatives... We all carry our mobile phone and by the use of that distance detector we earn tau, we also mine whioe walking and it will also helps us to improve our body when we are walking, it gives us good benefits when we use that and every where we go we have our tau with us... Is that possible? And we call that part of earnings "Walk with TAU"

Just an idea.. 😊😊😊
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Fritz1603 on October 28, 2018, 05:05:52 PM
I only got that idea because there is some app that didnt work well because for what? What am i goin to this distance detector? After i walk for some distance then whats next? But if we look in to the advantage point, walking is a good exercise and you earn, now distance detector has a meaning to you. If you are goin to work click the start button the you walk you earn.. you go home you click the start button you walk you earn... 😊😊😊
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on October 28, 2018, 05:10:34 PM
Nice idea and very social too. We have an increasing community now. Need this kind of idea to serve them. Do you want to do something about it? We can promote.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on October 29, 2018, 06:33:49 PM
The foundation development team is focusing on implement java based full mobile device mining node. we found that bitcoin does not have full java version. if we launch java version, we will be first alt coin having full java implemention which supports mobile devices like android.
Anyone know any coins having full java implementation? thanks.

For the upcoming main-net, we are still using transaction numbers as counting not the transaction fee. with epoch, we believe the transaction numbers accounting is able to resist spam. looking forward to more debate.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: kinjaz on November 02, 2018, 01:46:51 PM
hii ...
just opinion and ask for self harvest power..

case 1 : if john doe sign up from his facebook and tomorrow he sign up from his gmail...
then he have 2 taucoin account right??
so if the math from self harvest power "if we send/receive taucoin to another taucoin addres we get some point at self harvest power section"
nah...if john doe use trick to make his self harvest power , he can send his taucoin balance to another his account..and looping (he uses this trick everyday without limits)...
and he get self harvest power right??

what if the amount of self harvest power was reduced every time sent / received to a different wallet but indicated it was the same owner ?? to prevent this trick from happening later...
i'm not proggramer , i hope someone answer my question or maybe have suggestion for this case..
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 02, 2018, 02:11:13 PM
In my findings I found a coin named Phoneum (true mobile-only cryptocurrency and mining solution) that's how it's entitled, but they are still weak because they use a combination of Proof of work (POW) and Proof of Time (POT).

To them, the more miners on the network, the higher the hashrate and mining difficulty, of course this is normal for any POW users, hence we as proof of transaction, we don't want this. Also there is so called Proof of Time, to them, the more time you spend online, the more you get rewarded, but still a problem because users are automatically excluded from mining the devices are overheated, its also a drawback that we Proof Of Transaction does not encourage excluding miners as they are important part in the ecosystem.

Further more, I even communicated to team and they say "Android runs a modified version java version", but in a closer look, I read their whole white paper seem not to mention anything with regard of full java version inclusion on there mobile mining.

Again, I even installed their mining app (Phoneum Go, anyone can check it just for learning purposes), its truelly mining when you stay online, but one major challenge is, when the mining app shut down due to device overheat, when you restart it, no previously mined record s kept, seems are arased (hahahaaa).......... I also find another called MobileCoin, but seems not to have any information regarding the use of full java version on their mobile mining activities.

All here are limitations in which we can still say no any one who managed to fully implement java version in mobile mining, I hope TAU Coin will stand out and take the lead.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 02, 2018, 08:01:05 PM
Taunopoly and mobile mining are same entity. For those having free bandwith on wifi, you can mine. For those only on 4G, you can play tau game.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 02, 2018, 08:08:13 PM
Hi Kriptolab, thanks for testting out the Phoneum and feedback. As you see, we are not proof of hardware based. All of our miner generation rights for next producer is from hashing on transaction data, so very thin computing needed. That is why POT ftting mobile better. We are envision a very light computing miner on android. We are working on getting product devlivered prior to annoucement date.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 02, 2018, 08:35:38 PM
Sending money between accounts need transaction fee that will be collected by other miners. You will waste lots of fee to increase power, which might not be economical if you bet on wrong time and price.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: bobthegrownup on November 03, 2018, 01:08:43 AM
The strength of every network is the size of its network. The strategy to use a popular and addicting game like TAunopoly to increase the miner size is pure genius.

Another pocket Ace by imorpheus!

Once the game is launched, mobile mining will allow all people to participate in this fast fair and secure economy, where we will see people take control of their economic power. With a million people participating in the governance and the cooperation of wealth construction, there will be a revolution of sorts that will bring around a new wave of innovation

Game = Mobile Mining Network = Freedom
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: etherium_24 on November 04, 2018, 06:35:21 AM
The strength of every network is the size of its network. The strategy to use a popular and addicting game like TAunopoly to increase the miner size is pure genius.

Another pocket Ace by imorpheus!

Once the game is launched, mobile mining will allow all people to participate in this fast fair and secure economy, where we will see people take control of their economic power. With a million people participating in the governance and the cooperation of wealth construction, there will be a revolution of sorts that will bring around a new wave of innovation

Game = Mobile Mining Network = Freedom

So excited about this taunopoly game app. Some devs working on it already? hope a glimpse of its sneek peak. This is one product of taucoin, everyone should be excited about.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 04, 2018, 01:59:30 PM
Hi Kriptolab, thanks for testting out the Phoneum and feedback. As you see, we are not proof of hardware based. All of our miner generation rights for next producer is from hashing on transaction data, so very thin computing needed. That is why POT ftting mobile better. We are envision a very light computing miner on android. We are working on getting product devlivered prior to annoucement date.
I strongly agree with you, POT will stand out in this cryptocurrency democratization error, thanks to find it out too. I hope for more debate
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Naruto uzumay on November 04, 2018, 07:23:49 PM
it will be very exciting if in taumonofoly we can bet there will be challenges
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 04, 2018, 07:52:20 PM
Simple functions spec for new mobile mining.
https://link.medium.com/QZNxl1NUzR
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 05, 2018, 12:42:41 AM
Discussion on checkpoint technology.
To prevent long range attack, which is someone rebuilding blockchain from very early time to make it look like a real chain to confuse new miners, the current POT whitepaper suggests using checkpoint to make certain portion of blockchain permanent.
My worry is that if checkpoint is adopted as consensus, there will be lots hard fork to be generated because the miner made wrong choise can not come back. Blockchain itself can not prove it is genuine or or. Maybe something like Yelp service can give ranking as what fork has best chances to be real one. This situation is hard to happen in POW, but possible in both POS and POT. POT is harder due to you do need to accumulate one year transactions, but in POS you can quickly move the coins to do that.
Love to hear feedback on checkpoint thinking.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Krowbar13 on November 05, 2018, 06:06:11 PM
I think it would be good if you add the TAU-X feature to the Taunopoly game. so everyone can play in the game even those who don't have TAU, they can exchange other currencies to TAU to play in the game
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 06, 2018, 07:13:58 PM
Let me explain more on long range attack. Hackers with initial high number of coins, such as foundation or founders, can start from very beginning of blockchain to rebuild the entire chain using high stack (in POS) or high transaction records (in POT). POW does not have this problem, because of the rebuild entire chain require spend energy twice. Checkpoint is a consensus proposal that once chain grows cerain length, it is considered finality, no one can change anything, unless it is an complete hard fork which require new sets of miners to follow. I believe checkpoint needs to be implemented in tau.
Another idea to discuss today, shall we make time window to be entire history rather than one year.
Entire history with checkpoint will make 51% attack very hard to acheive. Assume tau chain has run one year, 51% attack hackers need to run one year as well to form 51%. If we make it entire history, the longer the chain grow, the harder it is.  Love to know your ideas.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 09, 2018, 11:51:56 AM
Let me explain more on long range attack. Hackers with initial high number of coins, such as foundation or founders, can start from very beginning of blockchain to rebuild the entire chain using high stack (in POS) or high transaction records (in POT). POW does not have this problem, because of the rebuild entire chain require spend energy twice. Checkpoint is a consensus proposal that once chain grows cerain length, it is considered finality, no one can change anything, unless it is an complete hard fork which require new sets of miners to follow. I believe checkpoint needs to be implemented in tau.
Another idea to discuss today, shall we make time window to be entire history rather than one year.
Entire history with checkpoint will make 51% attack very hard to acheive. Assume tau chain has run one year, 51% attack hackers need to run one year as well to form 51%. If we make it entire history, the longer the chain grow, the harder it is.  Love to know your ideas.
It’s not ppssible to tell if an individual address or transaction is ether valid, belongs to an attacker, or is part of a chain. To handle this, now, checkpoint technology have been invented.

Conceptually, checkpoints are hard coded into the typical client. Tthis typical client will accept all transactions and report to the checkpoint as true/valid and irreversible. If anyone tries to fork the blockchain starting from a block before the checkpoint, the client will not accept the fork. This makes those blocks "set in stone".

I appreciate your ideas iMorpheus , implementing this technology is very needful for security purpose
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 11, 2018, 02:18:53 AM
... continue the transaction spam discussion...
in email work, spam is popular because of the cost of sending email is close to zero. in TAU network, the cost of spam transaction is not cost zero, that require transaction fee satisfying miners. making lots of transaction increasing mining power is viewed as action to invest into tau future.
what is your idea?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Muxa84 on November 12, 2018, 06:28:46 AM
... continue the transaction spam discussion...
in email work, spam is popular because of the cost of sending email is close to zero. in TAU network, the cost of spam transaction is not cost zero, that require transaction fee satisfying miners. making lots of transaction increasing mining power is viewed as action to invest into tau future.
what is your idea?
switching between the leaders of the clubs has such a problem. you can add a time interval during which you can change the leader. limit it to for example 12 or 24 hours. this reduces the number of empty transactions.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 12, 2018, 02:52:53 PM
the club design will make short-range attack easier to implement, attackers can easily form different clubs to win the producer rights. we no longer do the club, only single address mining.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 13, 2018, 11:10:25 AM
... continue the transaction spam discussion...
in email work, spam is popular because of the cost of sending email is close to zero. in TAU network, the cost of spam transaction is not cost zero, that require transaction fee satisfying miners. making lots of transaction increasing mining power is viewed as action to invest into tau future.
what is your idea?
From transaction point of view, spam/spevulative transactions are always more costly to the spammer than not spamming, this is because it will force him to pay fee for every transaction he will attempt to make. Someone who is intentionally spamming the network will have to burn TAUcoins constantly to do so, and so will eventually be forced to stop. This is god invention from Proof of Transaction hence, the perfect preventive measure gains for-profits as well as for-control (as stated from the wp)
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Muxa84 on November 15, 2018, 12:54:05 AM
If there is spam, then there should be anti-spam. You can implement an internal anti-spam system based on the time interval or the number of transactions during the block.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 16, 2018, 07:57:59 AM
If there is spam, then there should be anti-spam. You can implement an internal anti-spam system based on the time interval or the number of transactions during the block.
Agreed with you bro, that would help to combat spammers ans speculators
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 16, 2018, 01:59:16 PM
the club design will make short-range attack easier to implement, attackers can easily form different clubs to win the producer rights. we no longer do the club, only single address mining.
Yes, this best comply with TAU's business based model address model with balance
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 16, 2018, 02:04:16 PM
Quote from iMorpheus (BTT)
"so why not just using smart contract in side chain? shall tau main net settlement layer support smart contract at all? UTXO is not able to support Turing complete smart contract. TAU is using utxo now."

****************

But the TAU white paper v0.4 state that

"In the development of TAU, we faced a choice
between UTXO and account based model. The
former is better for privacy and data compression. The latter is simpler and more efficient in some application, including. TAU’s club wiring reward transaction. We decided to use an address based
model with balance. It is an approach that keeps
privacy and conveniently supports club wiring
transactions. The burden of calculation and record keeping shifts to the full nodes, which we believe is
small. However, a better solution is possible, which lowers requirement for a full node."


My concerns:
📌 we need to stick or change the white paper to suit the need of the business model that might be in action.
📌 smart contracts have their flaws and thanks that's my fellow debaters have pinpointed them out. Of-course, researchers discovered several smart contract vulnerabilities which put millions of dollars at risk. This is worrisome news, although there is a positive side to it as well.
📌 we used to do some daily quizzes earlier, one of the question was  "Which is the TAU’s accounting model used?"[b[/] And the Answer was "TAU uses address based model with balance." Here now the question comes, should we forget this because we removed clubs on mining? Or the other way round but am not getting it. If we removed this model then am still not clear which model does TAU now using
📌if we are now using UTOX while the WP state the "address based
model with balance"
am a bit confused may be I need more help to understand this.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 17, 2018, 08:14:34 AM
I love the feedback on keeping us focused and simple as basic coin settlement layer.

A key decision is made and very bold. "reduce the block size to 10kb" aims to support massive decentralized mobile nodes mining.
Peer to peer communication among millions of mobile devices require smaller block size. This is to increase data availability, resulting to provide high security. we believe security is upmost importance, given the recent BCH 51% attack show. We adjust our spirit to "light and secure". this puts us in a very unique position comparing to other coins increasing block size, which will cause centralization, due to less nodes have full capture of blocks on time. The reason for 10kb is average ethereum block is 50kb. As an experimental currency, we want to start with high security, 10kb makes us look not sexy, but 10kb blocks size in a pure mobile environment is very cool.
what is your feedback?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on November 18, 2018, 03:26:14 PM
I love the feedback on keeping us focused and simple as basic coin settlement layer.

A key decision is made and very bold. "reduce the block size to 10kb" aims to support massive decentralized mobile nodes mining.
Peer to peer communication among millions of mobile devices require smaller block size. This is to increase data availability, resulting to provide high security. we believe security is upmost importance, given the recent BCH 51% attack show. We adjust our spirit to "light and secure". this puts us in a very unique position comparing to other coins increasing block size, which will cause centralization, due to less nodes have full capture of blocks on time. The reason for 10kb is average ethereum block is 50kb. As an experimental currency, we want to start with high security, 10kb makes us look not sexy, but 10kb blocks size in a pure mobile environment is very cool.
what is your feedback?

I sure got a lot of questions when an idea is added and I love discussing with it. Ethereum's average block size is adjusted by the miners themselves and current average block size is about 17kb only. Highest average would be around 34kb-37kb according to data. A 10kb block size POT coin under mobile mining is not a bad idea after all. but what concerns me is what comes next after?

If there would be more transactions in a block than the block size can handle, it will  only slow the speed of transaction and increase the fee to send it. We have experienced it already with bitcoin. Segwit adjusted it and increases to 4mb. We can do this as well so as not to strangle the blockchain. Or we could imitate Monero's style of automatic adjustments in so that whenever there is a high traffic in the blockchain, it will automatically adjust its block size.

Still, our main concern is security, speed and easy accessibility to mining. I hope everyone will contribute to this concensus.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on November 20, 2018, 08:08:17 AM
I love the feedback on keeping us focused and simple as basic coin settlement layer.

A key decision is made and very bold. "reduce the block size to 10kb" aims to support massive decentralized mobile nodes mining.
Peer to peer communication among millions of mobile devices require smaller block size. This is to increase data availability, resulting to provide high security. we believe security is upmost importance, given the recent BCH 51% attack show. We adjust our spirit to "light and secure". this puts us in a very unique position comparing to other coins increasing block size, which will cause centralization, due to less nodes have full capture of blocks on time. The reason for 10kb is average ethereum block is 50kb. As an experimental currency, we want to start with high security, 10kb makes us look not sexy, but 10kb blocks size in a pure mobile environment is very cool.
what is your feedback?
The main thing block size does is to prevent denial of service attacks on the network. To start with 10kb block size is a unique idea and real decentralization but I think it comes with higher translation fee and slows down the network as it grows that is why the best option be to implement is the "dynamic Block size" which implies that the block size limit changes by itself and is dependent on the transaction volume at any given time. It is well known that transactions will grow often, A blockchain-based network that uses a dynamic block size limit has an advantage of being less prone to a slowdown in its network and the transaction fee correponds with the growth and the growth calls for real scalability for future purposes if it's truly an alternative to what we already have in the world of crypto currency.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 21, 2018, 09:10:58 AM
10kb per minute on settlement layer is new but good for decentralization. The triangle, "decentralizing, security and scale", we would choose first two and trade off scaling. the future world in my imaging will be major application such as search engine, social and commerce running on dPOS semi-decentral consensus to gain scaling. TAU could use side-chain to settle with dPOS tokens to gain speed and other features. 10KB per minute is possible to gain millions of miners to join. so does crypto currency need millions of miner to protect it? or just less than 100 miners can hold the trust of the world?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 21, 2018, 07:10:35 PM
The main thing block size does is to prevent denial of service attacks on the network. To start with 10kb block size is a unique idea and real decentralization but I think it comes with higher translation fee and slows down the network as it grows that is why the best option be to implement is the "dynamic Block size" which implies that the block size limit changes by itself and is dependent on the transaction volume at any given time. It is well known that transactions will grow often, A blockchain-based network that uses a dynamic block size limit has an advantage of being less prone to a slowdown in its network and the transaction fee correponds with the growth and the growth calls for real scalability for future purposes if it's truly an alternative to what we already have in the world of crypto currency.
To understand this, consider a real example in a TAU blockchain with 10kb blocks every 1 minute. In order for nodes on the network to stay in sync with the chain, they will need to download and verify the validity of 10kb worth of blockdata every 1 min. Any nodes which cannot do this, will decrease the 'effective throughput' of the network (network efficiency), of which we don't expect this to happen from POT.

So now, consider what happens if you decrease the block interval to 1second. Suddenly, more (lots) of nodes that could download and process that data within 1 min will no longer be able to keep up with the rest of the network, since they now only have 1 second to do the same. Thus, our 'effective throughput' has decreased, since a much smaller percent of nodes will be able to engage and contribute to the network. But TAU devs aim at full nodes functioning.

This his I got the concept behind decreasing the block size. Any ideas? I hope for further debate on this
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 21, 2018, 07:19:15 PM
10kb per minute on settlement layer is new but good for decentralization. The triangle, "decentralizing, security and scale", we would choose first two and trade off scaling. the future world in my imaging will be major application such as search engine, social and commerce running on dPOS semi-decentral consensus to gain scaling. TAU could use side-chain to settle with dPOS tokens to gain speed and other features. 10KB per minute is possible to gain millions of miners to join. so does crypto currency need millions of miner to protect it? or just less than 100 miners can hold the trust of the world?
I agree with the new TAU tech on the settlement layer.....also the side-chain is important to be utilised as per dPOS proved good to get attached and utilize our blockchain due to its efficiency in terms of decentralization....

Again comes a question-----if we have smaller and fixed block size of 10kb, what will be the effects when dPOS tokens using our blockchain (side-chain)  have larger block size? Say it like 1mb-10mb size of their block or more

To the miners, only few can be important, doesn't need such a huge/big number of miners, taking an example, in a Bitcoin network, there are 200k miners ( considering the slushpool) and are threatening the network.......targeting more miners like 1M is important for more network security but even less than that can suffice the need.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 22, 2018, 07:54:55 AM
dPOS can do huge blocks in short time, that is why they are better for dAPP to operate. settlement layer require decentralized participation, tau is more focus on the "decentralized" part of the tri-angle. DPoS is on scale and consensus with a bit decentralized. it is complicated to debate how many miners are enough, i do not know either, how many TV channels do we really need? 8, 100 or a million?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 22, 2018, 07:57:31 AM
10kb/minute will bring us an experiment to test the boundary of how many miners is technical possible in today's network.  10kb/10 seconds feels hard for cell phone, 100kb/minute might be next step. but for experiment, we want to start from small 10kb/minute. to make 10kb to 100kb/minute will need a hard fork, people are doing that all the times.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on November 22, 2018, 03:30:00 PM
dPOS can do huge blocks in short time, that is why they are better for dAPP to operate. settlement layer require decentralized participation, tau is more focus on the "decentralized" part of the tri-angle. DPoS is on scale and consensus with a bit decentralized. it is complicated to debate how many miners are enough, i do not know either, how many TV channels do we really need? 8, 100 or a million?
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 let's have a target of having 1MM TV channels (users/miners) 😂😭😂😭😂😭, as we add more channels, we will evaluate how secure our network is and can have a decision to go more, or make any adjustment----POT

⚙⚙⚙ But devs should not forget this: high tx rates matters, which means TAU #Blockchain should be prepared to handle large amounts of transactions and in a fast but secured manner ---- POT⚙⚙⚙

We are going to meet with huge mass adoption as more people will need to focus and utilize the new technology----POT
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on November 22, 2018, 04:32:41 PM
To understand this, consider a real example in a TAU blockchain with 10kb blocks every 1 minute. In order for nodes on the network to stay in sync with the chain, they will need to download and verify the validity of 10kb worth of blockdata every 1 min. Any nodes which cannot do this, will decrease the 'effective throughput' of the network (network efficiency), of which we don't expect this to happen from POT.

So now, consider what happens if you decrease the block interval to 1second. Suddenly, more (lots) of nodes that could download and process that data within 1 min will no longer be able to keep up with the rest of the network, since they now only have 1 second to do the same. Thus, our 'effective throughput' has decreased, since a much smaller percent of nodes will be able to engage and contribute to the network. But TAU devs aim at full nodes functioning.
 
This his I got the concept behind decreasing the block size. Any ideas? I hope for further debate on this

Now it becomes a matter of block size and block time interval. The logic could be simple: More blocks mean more transaction. More transaction mean more coins being mined. As it was with bitcoin debate, it may sound appealing and good on paper but it "may" generate considerable network-wise issues and unintended consequences. for a POT as consensus mechanism, we cannot create a strong triangle when we compromise one by strengthening the other. And with this as experimental, it makes it more crucial.. especially in the early stages.

There could be various methods and alternatives in solving this equation. If scaling becomes the problem, we "could" not ignore the idea of decreasing the block size but it may pose other problem. Why not the earlier suggestion of adapting a dynamic block size? Either way, with this as base of concept, one can see the future as having higher transaction fees than we have now and a possible slower blockchain because of congestion. this could benefit mobile miners though.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 24, 2018, 10:33:08 AM
⚙⚙⚙ But devs should not forget this: high tx rates matters, which means TAU #Blockchain should be prepared to handle large amounts of transactions and in a fast but secured manner ---- POT⚙⚙⚙
Giving up high volume transaction numbers on main net is a big bet. Most of startup project dares not do that, but Satoshi did it through bitcoin in return for consensus. One blockchain to satisfy all DCS (decentralized, consensus and scaling) is impossible, there is math proof on that. One ecosystem of block chains can do that. Assume there is an ecosystem in the future, all we need to do is to pick up a position. TAUcoin picks up "decentralization" and consensus, which force us to run mobile mining and 10kb block size, no high volume as result.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 24, 2018, 10:36:08 AM
Now it becomes a matter of block size and block time interval. The logic could be simple: More blocks mean more transaction. More transaction mean more coins being mined. As it was with bitcoin debate, it may sound appealing and good on paper but it "may" generate considerable network-wise issues and unintended consequences. for a POT as consensus mechanism, we cannot create a strong triangle when we compromise one by strengthening the other. And with this as experimental, it makes it more crucial.. especially in the early stages.

There could be various methods and alternatives in solving this equation. If scaling becomes the problem, we "could" not ignore the idea of decreasing the block size but it may pose other problem. Why not the earlier suggestion of adapting a dynamic block size? Either way, with this as base of concept, one can see the future as having higher transaction fees than we have now and a possible slower blockchain because of congestion. this could benefit mobile miners though.
I love this idea "benefiting" the miner ... i think we will see that once our nodes released, all the source code is on GitHub now, feel free to check it out.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on November 28, 2018, 01:47:18 AM
Say we have 100k mobile miners after main net launch, that would really increase traffic and slow down transaction. At the current rate of tx fees, it  might become 10x and miners will surely benefit from it. And more no-coiners will eventually become miners too thus increasing further the tx in the blockchain.

Can I suggest that we lock up each 10% of the total coins for certain start-ups and another 10% just for the exchange. In reality, exchanges do a lot to a coins' price and is, to every extent, dependable on btc's pump and dump. For example we lock up 1B for taunopoly, 1B for each project, (like the one I suggested privately with Zi Ren and bmath) and others to be swapped for that specific use only and 1B for the exchange. (Ratio can be further discussed). The main purpose of this is to prevent a potential dump of hoarders and big players in the market. Taucoin is designed for transactions and for a majority of the coins to be stucked at the exchange will do no good to the community and miners themselves. With this, it could further boost the use of taucoins-swapped-coins in their local or worldwide areas. 

What do you guys think of this?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on November 28, 2018, 04:25:30 AM
Say we have 100k mobile miners after main net launch, that would really increase traffic and slow down transaction. At the current rate of tx fees, it  might become 10x and miners will surely benefit from it. And more no-coiners will eventually become miners too thus increasing further the tx in the blockchain.

Can I suggest that we lock up each 10% of the total coins for certain start-ups and another 10% just for the exchange. In reality, exchanges do a lot to a coins' price and is, to every extent, dependable on btc's pump and dump. For example we lock up 1B for taunopoly, 1B for each project, (like the one I suggested privately with Zi Ren and bmath) and others to be swapped for that specific use only and 1B for the exchange. (Ratio can be further discussed). The main purpose of this is to prevent a potential dump of hoarders and big players in the market. Taucoin is designed for transactions and for a majority of the coins to be stucked at the exchange will do no good to the community and miners themselves. With this, it could further boost the use of taucoins-swapped-coins in their local or worldwide areas. 

What do you guys think of this?
With block size of 10kb, 100k possible mobile miners, increased transaction fee is beneficial to miners and Taucoin. Using Bitcoin as a case study, people invest huge amount on mining rigs and ASICS and still pay huge fee on each transaction in respect to the volume of bitcoin in tx. The transaction fee on 10kb block size would still considerably be an innovation for the people and real definition of decentralization compared to the huge amount of Fiat prospective miners put in buying graphic cards and ASICS that becomes less/not profitable as hashrate increases.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on November 28, 2018, 07:22:09 AM
The thing is, TAUcoin should deliver what BTC has not and probably cannot. A totally decentralized  and permission-less mining will really empower every owner of the coin. If everyone can  mine, I think tx fee will not prevail as the main concern. We are currently among the devs and founders who are truly doing favor for all crypto enthusiasts.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on November 28, 2018, 07:37:48 AM
The thing is, TAUcoin should deliver what BTC has not and probably cannot. A totally decentralized  and permission-less mining will really empower every owner of the coin. If everyone can  mine, I think tx fee will not prevail as the main concern. We are currently among the devs and founders who are truly doing favor for all crypto enthusiasts.
True enough, but what I am still not very convinced about is the positive effect of easy mining on the value of Tau. Most people will only mine to dump and it will affect the price of Tau on daily basis. If everyone has access to mine and Tau has a decent exchange rate I think it will send other cryptos packing because no one ould want to buy other coin when Tau can be mined and exchange for other crypto currency. Still a lot of thing looking shady to me and I need someone with a constructive criticism to tackle how this will make Taucoin exceptional.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Oluwastar on November 28, 2018, 09:54:50 AM
sure ill go for it to
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on November 29, 2018, 03:07:56 AM
True enough, but what I am still not very convinced about is the positive effect of easy mining on the value of Tau. Most people will only mine to dump and it will affect the price of Tau on daily basis. If everyone has access to mine and Tau has a decent exchange rate I think it will send other cryptos packing because no one ould want to buy other coin when Tau can be mined and exchange for other crypto currency. Still a lot of thing looking shady to me and I need someone with a constructive criticism to tackle how this will make Taucoin exceptional.

That cold be true. That's why I suggested something above to counter the said predictions. We should have many start-ups and less coins for exchange to reduce price manipulation. No matter how many coins someone can mine and proceed with dumping it for the benefit of the price, wont have high effect on its dump.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on November 29, 2018, 10:20:01 AM
That cold be true. That's why I suggested something above to counter the said predictions. We should have many start-ups and less coins for exchange to reduce price manipulation. No matter how many coins someone can mine and proceed with dumping it for the benefit of the price, wont have high effect on its dump.
I seem not to understand your point here but my take on the effect of decentralized mining is that it will make the price low on daily basis. There are so many people out there who will prefer to mine and dump as soon as a reasonable amount of tau is mined whereas it makes people reluctant to buy and price only go up when there is huge demand with less supply. In the case of Taucoin huge supply is what we have.I strongly believe I'm still not getting all the facts about how the mining would make Tau have good value in the market and I wish to get a detailed analysis.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on November 30, 2018, 04:46:27 PM
quote: While he (BM) only gave people some vague information about how this new hypothetical token would be, he described it as something that would be immutable, limited to the role of being a proper digital currency and non-programmable.

Dan Larimer finally decided to do a currency rather than a global computer. that is why learned $4B paid by the community. Tau is targeting to be currency only from day one. i am glad we are on right track.
Now POW is volatile, POS-eth might never come out, dPOS is consider not a blockchain, POT is one the way to the future...
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 03, 2018, 08:21:04 AM
quote: While he (BM) only gave people some vague information about how this new hypothetical token would be, he described it as something that would be immutable, limited to the role of being a proper digital currency and non-programmable.

Dan Larimer finally decided to do a currency rather than a global computer. that is why learned $4B paid by the community. Tau is targeting to be currency only from day one. i am glad we are on right track.
Now POW is volatile, POS-eth might never come out, dPOS is consider not a blockchain, POT is one the way to the future...
Among other things, dPOS bigest limitation is that,  sufficient decentralization can never be achieved due to the failure to take into account the scalability of the network as a trade-off. (Consider EOS, ADA, NANO, Lisk ........)

A purely decentralized currency should be immune to inflation or deflation. It should also be a real-world demonstration of blockchain technology, fueling further development of decentralized applications, serving as a stabilizing agent and an alternative.

POT in which Taucoin Ecosystem is bound, with its decentralised nature should show a read Blockchain to leverage the technology.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 03, 2018, 09:55:25 AM
I think the world is over-using blockchain function to support too many application concept. the layoff of steemit shows that it is not ready for big platform. the current global peer to peer internet speed is only good enough for simple currency just like a modem 20 years ago only good for email. with 5G become pervasive, p2p telecom can achieve much higher speed and even lower cost of computing and storage, then mored app functions can be added to blockchain. right now, stretching the permission less block chain capability to too many area is pre-mature.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 04, 2018, 07:08:31 AM
I think the world is over-using blockchain function to support too many application concept. the layoff of steemit shows that it is not ready for big platform. the current global peer to peer internet speed is only good enough for simple currency just like a modem 20 years ago only good for email. with 5G become pervasive, p2p telecom can achieve much higher speed and even lower cost of computing and storage, then mored app functions can be added to blockchain. right now, stretching the permission less block chain capability to too many area is pre-mature.
1969s was the first time the Internet came online. However, it took several years (say 50yrs) before people could totally accept it and transfer digital properties and values to other users over the internet in a safe, secure, and trustless manner.

Blockchain is born about  the past 10 years ago, cryptocurrency is about $213B in marketcap, when we compare other markets' cap (Gold market cap, stock market, real estate, global debt, U.S national debt ...) They count from 7.8T - 247T caps (source: Twitter - @Blockchainlife), this really shows how premature blockchain is, but with time and continued mass adoption it will reach its maturity stage and all early adopters will enjoy its fates.

Many areas are understanding technological advancements and many people would have to look on new technologies and innovations.

POT is one of the new Blockchain innovative  consensus protocol that would bring more attention in the near future, with the current TAU stats its apparent that will have a sound and good future. And for it to stand out the devs process need be strong, innovative and  focused. With the prematurity nature of the Blockchain we need people (you & me) to take it to the next and more appreciated levels.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on December 04, 2018, 08:29:45 AM
I think the world is over-using blockchain function to support too many application concept. the layoff of steemit shows that it is not ready for big platform. the current global peer to peer internet speed is only good enough for simple currency just like a modem 20 years ago only good for email. with 5G become pervasive, p2p telecom can achieve much higher speed and even lower cost of computing and storage, then mored app functions can be added to blockchain. right now, stretching the permission less block chain capability to too many area is pre-mature.
Yes absolutely. Blockchain is being misused but not over-used, I will say the reason for this is because it is misunderstood, but the most obvious is individuals or group of people who created a blockchain for personal interest of making them big. Irrespective of where a blockchain is used instead of a database, it always offers more efficiency, less fraud and security. It can be unnecessary when there is no middle man, because having a middle man sometimes pave way for fraud, inefficiencies and make it less reliable.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on December 05, 2018, 07:50:35 AM
1969s was the first time the Internet came online. However, it took several years (say 50yrs) before people could totally accept it and transfer digital properties and values to other users over the internet in a safe, secure, and trustless manner.

Blockchain is born about  the past 10 years ago, cryptocurrency is about $213B in marketcap, when we compare other markets' cap (Gold market cap, stock market, real estate, global debt, U.S national debt ...) They count from 7.8T - 247T caps (source: Twitter - @Blockchainlife), this really shows how premature blockchain is, but with time and continued mass adoption it will reach its maturity stage and all early adopters will enjoy its fates.

Many areas are understanding technological advancements and many people would have to look on new technologies and innovations.

POT is one of the new Blockchain innovative  consensus protocol that would bring more attention in the near future, with the current TAU stats its apparent that will have a sound and good future. And for it to stand out the devs process need be strong, innovative and  focused. With the prematurity nature of the Blockchain we need people (you & me) to take it to the next and more appreciated levels.

With this kind of thinking, I could keep 1M TAUCOIN (if I have it already) for 30 years more. :D $100 each coin would be too small by then .  8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 05, 2018, 09:55:06 AM
we realize more and more "decentralizing" is the key in the blockchain and crypto through recent market move. therefore, we need to make mobile mining upmost importance.
To make each miner best user experiences and allow every phone be able to mine, I will propose to dev to reduce block size to 1kb per minute to make really light on mobile ming. that you do not have to worry bandwidth data.
during the same time, we will change web wallet to fee less fast payment platform.
with super decentrazlizing on the mainnet, and fast speed on centralized web wallet, we make "decetral- consensus-scaling" triangle balanced.
1KB/minute is bold move, we can expect community to fork out to high block size in the future if truly needed. I believe there are enough drivers to fork up to high block size. Now we need to make decentralized technology work first, which is largely missing in the industry.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 06, 2018, 07:38:47 AM
With this kind of thinking, I could keep 1M TAUCOIN (if I have it already) for 30 years more. :D $100 each coin would be too small by then .  8) 8) 8) 8)
Hahahahaaaa, not a matter of rule that we should wait longer to see Blockchain's great success, its not a rule of thurmb either but at least Blockchain is still in its infantry stage we all aware of this. Btw its about Blockchain not Taucoin. Welcome for further discussion friend(s)

Just a question to iMorpheus , how many TXs will be stored in 1kb block (am curious)
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on December 06, 2018, 11:23:24 AM
we realize more and more "decentralizing" is the key in the blockchain and crypto through recent market move. therefore, we need to make mobile mining upmost importance.
To make each miner best user experiences and allow every phone be able to mine, I will propose to dev to reduce block size to 1kb per minute to make really light on mobile ming. that you do not have to worry bandwidth data.
during the same time, we will change web wallet to fee less fast payment platform.
with super decentrazlizing on the mainnet, and fast speed on centralized web wallet, we make "decetral- consensus-scaling" triangle balanced.
1KB/minute is bold move, we can expect community to fork out to high block size in the future if truly needed. I believe there are enough drivers to fork up to high block size. Now we need to make decentralized technology work first, which is largely missing in the industry.

TX fee will surely get high from 0.01-1 TAUcoin per transaction. :D I like this idea. Miners will be flooding the system.. :D

By the way, what do we mean by the "key"? Is there something yet that other crypto has not accomplished that only TAUcoin can? aside from being an experimental POT, can it deliver strength to the highly volatile environment of crypto space? If not, then to what extent are we that different than others?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on December 07, 2018, 03:39:48 PM
I've seen and invested in coin that are POS and the lowest transaction fee on any of them is 0.1... I will use XQR as a persfect example of high transaction fee rate despite not having any significant usage or new invention. With mobile mining for everyone a 0.1 trx fee is not a bad idea I think. It makes it more valuable I can presume.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 07, 2018, 05:38:47 PM
blockchain is all about trade off, different protocol tries different things. we happen to focus on decentralization given what we learned from current market. the more decentralized, the high transaction fee seems to be. in central solution, you can achieve almost fee less.
On settlement main net layer, high fee will cause 2nd layer solution such as web wallet and lightning network to grow.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on December 08, 2018, 11:56:07 AM
I agree on this and I believe the choice on decentralization is a great move both to the community and the founders. I think it has been clear already to the crypto community that a totally decentralized function of a blockchain or a coin will create more value than its rarity. We'll do all our best to promote this one and help everyone to get the best of TAUCOIN.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on December 08, 2018, 02:37:08 PM
blockchain is all about trade off, different protocol tries different things. we happen to focus on decentralization given what we learned from current market. the more decentralized, the high transaction fee seems to be. in central solution, you can achieve almost fee less.
On settlement main net layer, high fee will cause 2nd layer solution such as web wallet and lightning network to grow.
True enough. 🤔
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 10, 2018, 12:30:01 PM
When you want to become a Miner in ETN network, the first thing is to create account via their official site, then you do a simple KYC that you become a verified Miner.
🤝E-mail verification
🤝Mobile # verification
🤝Security PIN verification

I tried following to see how effective is this model of verification but it proves failure to me, I did my first registration past 6 months but the verification code didn't arrived till this time of writing 😱😱😱 via my mobile number I provided (unlucky enough, I used 4 different mobile numbers from different telcom operators but none succeeded to be verified). You can have a try and come up with your results but not friendly to me and many friends around my region.

Made a simple search and found the following info👇

⛏ Daily active miners varied from 85k - 140k
⛏The number of registered/generated miners information are held by the team and not subject to release ( I got this after conversion with one of the active miner via ETN miners telegram group chat: link- https://t.me/electromineglobal)

Here are the tx (Blocks) details
Network difficulty: 394330515254
Hash rate: 3286.09 MH/s
Fee per kb: 0.10
Median block size limit: 146.48 kB

Transaction pool

(no of txs: 24, size: 98.33 kB, updated every 5 seconds)

Source: https://blockexplorer.electroneum.com

TAU uses its own Blockchain also, It feels good for TAU removed KYC issues since the very beginning, I also like the concept behind POT as compared to the early Blockchain consensus mechanisms, POT is all we need but it should stand on the real ground of blockchain with its decentralized nature to compete out there......btw I have no doubt with POT.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on December 13, 2018, 07:30:56 AM
On second thoughts, the anonymous user on discord who asked series of questions about taucoin is clearly a crypo enthusiast who finds POT strange and not understandable. Till now I still dig through it everyday to have a perfect understanding of it's uniqueness and how it represents what other coin don't offer.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Mr. Wolf on December 13, 2018, 04:01:06 PM
Is this the new thread for the debate? Can I use it for getting rewards?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 13, 2018, 09:35:18 PM
yes.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on December 14, 2018, 05:25:27 AM
 
How do we expect to get lots of mining power in mobile mining if the block size is 1kb? And what was mentioned earlier is that it can handle 3 transactions ONLY per second. Is this true? I believe that the value of encouraging miners to mine for a long time is to see the worth of the coin they are mining. Since web wallet mining power is not automatically transferred to the android wallet (As I've read in the discussions), everyone will start at the genesis block and since block size is reduced, transactions will be a lot slower than the test net phase. It would further increase transaction fees in the process and might become costly (in terms of gaining self mining power through own transaction) thus delivering a not-effective-way-of-mining. If I send 10 TAU to my own address to increase self mining power yet I get only 0.001 TAU in the process of mining and the value of TAU is $1 (for example), then time will come for more congestion in the blockchain resulting in a higher tx fees than what is mined.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 14, 2018, 09:57:21 PM
each transaction is about 200 bytes, 1kb is about 5 transactions. we are looking at whether utxo or account system to fit this situation from both transaction size and privacy consideration now.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Mr. Wolf on December 15, 2018, 09:43:00 AM
each transaction is about 200 bytes, 1kb is about 5 transactions. we are looking at whether utxo or account system to fit this situation from both transaction size and privacy consideration now.

Does this mean that even the main net is still experimental? IF so, then, when UTXO system proves not sufficient, are we going into account system?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 15, 2018, 11:39:39 AM
each transaction is about 200 bytes, 1kb is about 5 transactions. we are looking at whether utxo or account system to fit this situation from both transaction size and privacy consideration now.
UTXO model is much simpler than the account model in terms of scalability, and importantly, it allows the consensus model of Bitcoin (PoW) to remain simple.

What about TAU (POT), will it have same impact?? If yes, then it has important ramifications for the scalability and security of the network overall and eventually allows for Simple Payment Verifications (but also better for privacy and data compression as you stated in your wp v0.4)

Still in terms of programmability, UTXO model is weak and complex computational is almost impossible.

Also, the growth of the numbers of inputs in UTXO is proportional to the increase in the associated witness scripts, this will cause an increase in computational and storage burden on the Blockchain especially when verifying them, I raise the question(s) how will you (iMorpheus/TAU devs) be able to solve these problems to make sure TAU is unique from others and stand with its own feet?

Because I remember you first choice was address model with balance.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 15, 2018, 01:02:20 PM
We developed theory of "single utility on one chain" after adopt UTXO. recently we never revisit this since the dev is under way. Thanks to Lod raise this up, in beginning of TAU, we strongly feel address with balance is more important, but affacted by social discussion on privacy, we think we can follow bitcoin routing. however, in reality, semi anonymous cause resource waste on main-net.
Verifying all inputs is also a burden on mobile device.
Thanks "kriptolab" for remind us again on original choice.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 15, 2018, 01:09:34 PM
Thanks also to accept being original, yes we should be and more critically is to be unique with our POT concept
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: vncntluv on December 15, 2018, 07:38:56 PM
We developed theory of "single utility on one chain" after adopt UTXO. recently we never revisit this since the dev is under way. Thanks to Lod raise this up, in beginning of TAU, we strongly feel address with balance is more important, but affacted by social discussion on privacy, we think we can follow bitcoin routing. however, in reality, semi anonymous cause resource waste on main-net.
Verifying all inputs is also a burden on mobile device.
Thanks "kriptolab" for remind us again on original choice.
Why is account with balance more important? Does that claims to be like proof of stake in any form? I know some that use the account balance to earn passive income in POS.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Aldiansyah on December 15, 2018, 07:46:44 PM
Taucoin real project dezentralized and mobile mining
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Aldiansyah on December 15, 2018, 07:56:32 PM
Pot algorithms must be unique so that the new algorithm is better known by crypto users and is better than pow and pos
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 17, 2018, 06:37:12 PM
Why is account with balance more important? Does that claims to be like proof of stake in any form? I know some that use the account balance to earn passive income in POS.
In all the articles I read, none of them state UTXO favours decentralization.

The account based model offers the following to the network:

Large space savings: because every transaction need only make one reference and one signature and produces one output.

Greater fungibility: because there is no blockchain-level concept of the source of a specific set of coins, it becomes less practical to institute a redlist/blacklisting scheme.

Familiarity/Simplicity: the account model affords much greater simplicity than the UTXO based model, easier to code and understand, especially once more complex scripts become involved.

Constant light client reference: light clients can at any point access all data related to an account by scanning down the state tree in a specific direction.

One apparent weakness of the account based model is that in order to prevent replay attacks, every transaction must have a "nonce" and the account must keep track of the nonces used (here iMorpheus should look on how to eliminate this weakness)

Utxo does not impact dectralization at all, unnecessarily complicated and the complexity is much greater in the implementation than in the theory. UTXO are stateless and so are not suited for complex applications.

Hence, as TAU (POT) remaining on original text is far better, hope for further discussion on the matter
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 17, 2018, 11:35:52 PM
UTXO encourages changing holding address after each transaction. New addresses generated are linear to transaction numbers. In POT, since we are accounting power on address, this will bring big memory consumption problem. We are not exactly account based, rather, POT is more address based.
A few updates in discussion...
since each block is only 1kb, we do not encourage super nodes or lite nodes, so that merkle tree could be removed, we just hash entire block to put in next block header.
using 5 byte integer for tau amount, this will make total circulation to 10,995,116,276.00 with 2 decimals.

welcome to debate and new ideas.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Mr. Wolf on December 20, 2018, 05:01:51 AM
We may have UTXO or account model, but it does not imply our uniqueness as we have a unique consensus mechanism, Proof-of-Transaction.
Why can't the team create a model in which its desired description and properties be included? We can get some points from UTXO model and some points from account model that will much describe our OWN model of accounting. At the moment, I can see that we are using UTXO in our transactions (You can check the explorer with what I'm talking about).

If the goal is truly decentralization, we should focus more in giving the community the advantage. How?

1. Provide more transparency than account model. Merely knowing what addresses do and how much they transact does mean transparency at all. Anyone can create dummies.
2. Web wallet self-mining power must not, in any way, be transferred to android mining. Devs and early birds will have advantage.
3. Limit exchange participation of coins. Whales are here and everywhere. Once they get majority of numbers, it'll be easy for a pump and dump situation. But at least TAU must have a value.
4. Evenly distribute coins for usage. Like #3 above, we must avoid such situations by building more projects in the future and not limit its usage to one area or country.
5. Protection from short-range and long range attack.
6. Tech should remain stable and not subject to changes like upgrade or another direction. and the lists go on...

Maybe you get the idea but a truly decentralized coin will have less volatility. Most top cryptocurrencies we have now are centralized which gives them a very high volatility issues.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Menma on December 20, 2018, 06:44:19 AM
UTXO encourages changing holding address after each transaction. New addresses generated are linear to transaction numbers. In POT, since we are accounting power on address, this will bring big memory consumption problem. We are not exactly account based, rather, POT is more address based.
A few updates in discussion...
since each block is only 1kb, we do not encourage super nodes or lite nodes, so that merkle tree could be removed, we just hash entire block to put in next block header.
using 5 byte integer for tau amount, this will make total circulation to 10,995,116,276.00 with 2 decimals.

welcome to debate and new ideas.

Is there not an address-based model of accounting? Since account base is used for staking, adress based must be for POT.
Anonymity should also be taken consideration upon.

Is it possible to remove the addresses and just have the transactions to see?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: niccanebalasca on December 20, 2018, 01:31:16 PM
It is good that we have POT as experimental but there many not-so-good things I can see.

1. Transaction speed is VERY slow. The whitepaper says "fast". In fact mobile mining will be the slowest I know in blockchain tech.
2. Block reward is SO SMALL. Why? Because transaction fees are also small.
3. Mobile mining power balance. Since txs are slow and mobile can provide mining, mobile miners will generaTE txs from the block genesis. ALL miners will have the same amount of power, assuming they will create more tx to have more mining power.
4. Which one will be transparent? Web wallet or android wallet? or both? and which one will be private or semi-private?

Suggestion: Create a UNIQUE block reward system that does not rely on tx fees alone.
       E.g. Every 10th block, reward is 1TAU instead of the tx fee. Then every 100th block, reward is 10 TAU so on and so forth..

Problem is, If I spend 10 txs with 0.0025 as tx fees and I mine (0.0025 x 10 ) 0.025 TAU for that matter, mining is then useless coz I only get my tx fees back.

Or better yet, just increase the speed of transactions.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: ovcijisir on December 20, 2018, 08:17:56 PM
If I understand right, in Taucoin, every person that makes transaction is "miner"

Is that right?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 22, 2018, 04:14:44 PM
every person makes transaction to accumulate mining power, it is permission less to be a miner.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 22, 2018, 04:25:12 PM
Notes on design TAU block structure
We design the block and transaction structure to achieve following:
-support fast communication in mobile environment, particular to avoid fork caused by global network latency.
-small size to allow mobile device to download blockchain fast for network grow decentralize easier.
-transparent mining to increase detection on 51%, this is not design to completely avoid it.
-each block contain 50 transactions, one block every 5 minutes.
TAU Block:
-Blockheader: 1–4; the block header design purpose is to allow mobile nodes to find out which chain has the most accumulative difficulty. Using timestamp and public key is sufficient to compute each block target base and difficulty number. Header is small of 122 bytes, full day’s header info is 35Kbyte. With this small data set, it is efficient for nodes to find most difficult chain to avoid forks.
-timestamp: 32 bits
-previousHeaderHash: 160 bits; use SHA256, RIPEMD 160
-generatorPublicKey: 264 bits; compressed public key in ECDSA.
-block signature: 520 bits; V,R,S format, possible to retrieve public key. the reason we still include public key here is for block headers to contrust accumulative difficulty.
-version: 8bits
-option: 8bits; this is left for future use.
-“Hit” number is first 8 bytes of hash(previous block generator public key 64bits+ current generator public key 64 bits); with this network random number, TAU can predict the future miner sequence up to certain extent to increase the detection of 51% attack.
The block common area is total 992 bits, 124 bytes.

TAU Transaction: we only support transaction from one address to one address.
-version: 8 bits; keeping version is for future upgrade to control the transition grace peroid.
-timestamp: 32 bits; transaction will expire 24 hours, that is 288 blocks. on TAU, every 144 blocks it will lock an checkpoint, so if an -transaction expire, there are 2 check points to confirm that .
-toAddess: 160 bits, this is SHA256-ripemd 160 on a public key that is recovered from transaction signature.
-amountTAU: 40 bits
-feeTAU: 16 bits
-transaction signature: 520
Every transaction is total 776 bits, 97 bytes.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Menma on December 27, 2018, 05:42:26 AM
Notes on design TAU block structure
We design the block and transaction structure to achieve following:
-support fast communication in mobile environment, particular to avoid fork caused by global network latency.
-small size to allow mobile device to download blockchain fast for network grow decentralize easier.
-transparent mining to increase detection on 51%, this is not design to completely avoid it.
-each block contain 50 transactions, one block every 5 minutes.
TAU Block:
-Blockheader: 1–4; the block header design purpose is to allow mobile nodes to find out which chain has the most accumulative difficulty. Using timestamp and public key is sufficient to compute each block target base and difficulty number. Header is small of 122 bytes, full day’s header info is 35Kbyte. With this small data set, it is efficient for nodes to find most difficult chain to avoid forks.
-timestamp: 32 bits
-previousHeaderHash: 160 bits; use SHA256, RIPEMD 160
-generatorPublicKey: 264 bits; compressed public key in ECDSA.
-block signature: 520 bits; V,R,S format, possible to retrieve public key. the reason we still include public key here is for block headers to contrust accumulative difficulty.
-version: 8bits
-option: 8bits; this is left for future use.
-“Hit” number is first 8 bytes of hash(previous block generator public key 64bits+ current generator public key 64 bits); with this network random number, TAU can predict the future miner sequence up to certain extent to increase the detection of 51% attack.
The block common area is total 992 bits, 124 bytes.

TAU Transaction: we only support transaction from one address to one address.
-version: 8 bits; keeping version is for future upgrade to control the transition grace peroid.
-timestamp: 32 bits; transaction will expire 24 hours, that is 288 blocks. on TAU, every 144 blocks it will lock an checkpoint, so if an -transaction expire, there are 2 check points to confirm that .
-toAddess: 160 bits, this is SHA256-ripemd 160 on a public key that is recovered from transaction signature.
-amountTAU: 40 bits
-feeTAU: 16 bits
-transaction signature: 520
Every transaction is total 776 bits, 97 bytes.

Notes on design TAU block structure
**Obviously, it's not fast. It could mean that we are prone to forks in the future especially if there'll be lots of transactions.
TAU Block:
1. Is accumulative difficulty the same with total difficulty. As it is defined today, difficulty is the current quantitative measure how hard it is to mine a block. This is common for POW.
2. Timestamp has the same bits, previous header hash bits was reduced ( I like it ), removed  the 32-byte merkle root (This is also a good idea)

In a normal mining procedure, a block header is repeatedly hashed by altering the nonce value to create Proof of Work which rewards miners for their work. In what difference are we trying to emulate this consensus mechanism in Proof of Transaction?

lastly, under what conditions can a transaction be expired?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 27, 2018, 09:09:46 AM
Notes on design TAU block structure
We design the block and transaction structure to achieve following:
-support fast communication in mobile environment, particular to avoid fork caused by global network latency.
-small size to allow mobile device to download blockchain fast for network grow decentralize easier.
-transparent mining to increase detection on 51%, this is not design to completely avoid it.
-each block contain 50 transactions, one block every 5 minutes.
TAU Block:
-Blockheader: 1–4; the block header design purpose is to allow mobile nodes to find out which chain has the most accumulative difficulty. Using timestamp and public key is sufficient to compute each block target base and difficulty number. Header is small of 122 bytes, full day’s header info is 35Kbyte. With this small data set, it is efficient for nodes to find most difficult chain to avoid forks.
-timestamp: 32 bits
-previousHeaderHash: 160 bits; use SHA256, RIPEMD 160
-generatorPublicKey: 264 bits; compressed public key in ECDSA.
-block signature: 520 bits; V,R,S format, possible to retrieve public key. the reason we still include public key here is for block headers to contrust accumulative difficulty.
-version: 8bits
-option: 8bits; this is left for future use.
-“Hit” number is first 8 bytes of hash(previous block generator public key 64bits+ current generator public key 64 bits); with this network random number, TAU can predict the future miner sequence up to certain extent to increase the detection of 51% attack.
The block common area is total 992 bits, 124 bytes.

TAU Transaction: we only support transaction from one address to one address.
-version: 8 bits; keeping version is for future upgrade to control the transition grace peroid.
-timestamp: 32 bits; transaction will expire 24 hours, that is 288 blocks. on TAU, every 144 blocks it will lock an checkpoint, so if an -transaction expire, there are 2 check points to confirm that .
-toAddess: 160 bits, this is SHA256-ripemd 160 on a public key that is recovered from transaction signature.
-amountTAU: 40 bits
-feeTAU: 16 bits
-transaction signature: 520
Every transaction is total 776 bits, 97 bytes.
Who controls how high or how low fees are on mainnet? This is a classic governance question as the fee model is a core part of the protocol. The network validator nodes are the ones making this decision, they are free to choose whether fees are increased or reduced.

TAU Block
-option: 8bits; this is left for future use (agree with the wp-under governance chapter)
-version: 8 bits; keeping version is for future upgrade to control the transition grace peroid (also fine with wp governance's original text)

Future network upgrade is important for and healthy for the ecosystem. I appreciate this Blockchain artistic work
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: ovcijisir on December 27, 2018, 09:13:34 PM
If I understand correctly - then the more transactions per block are in TAU blockchain the more secure TAU network is.

Thinking of that I think TAU would greatly benefit if it would have IOT implementation.

Wallet could be implemented in IOT device, and transactions could be automated between IOT devices.

If this kind of implementation would be possible, it would greatly increase traffic on TAU network making it more secure.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Mr. Wolf on December 28, 2018, 09:18:28 AM
I need some explanation on this. The coin allocation on the whitepaper says that all coins will be generated from the genesis block. Currently in our test net phase, we have 421M TAUcoin in circulation and is still growing today because of referral system and pc mining. Then, during our mobile mining, coins generated will also come from the genesis block. All in all we will have a total of 20B TAUcoins in supply from two different genesis block.

Another thing is that pc miners already had an advantage due to abusive transactions. Though it has been removed in mobile mining features, if pc mining will not be stopped, it will have more miners than mobile ones.. It should be clear then where our coins must be generated. It will be an insult to future mobile miners if pc mining will gain the upper hand..

This could mean either one of two things. 1. Mobile mined coins will have a lower supply (e.g. 10B minus 421M  =  approx 9.5B TAUcoin) and web wallet coin generation will be stopped. 2. Coins from web wallet will be obsolete and team will compensate for that. I don't really understand but I think it is worth some answers.

Also, does TAUcoin have pre-mined coins? Where do admins get the rewards given to bounties and referral bonus.   
 
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on December 28, 2018, 10:01:13 AM
Who controls how high or how low fees are on mainnet? This is a classic governance question as the fee model is a core part of the protocol. The network validator nodes are the ones making this decision, they are free to choose whether fees are increased or reduced.

TAU Block
-option: 8bits; this is left for future use (agree with the wp-under governance chapter)
-version: 8 bits; keeping version is for future upgrade to control the transition grace peroid (also fine with wp governance's original text)

Future network upgrade is important for and healthy for the ecosystem. I appreciate this Blockchain artistic work

There will be a category for this one brother. Priority (means fast; higher fee ), normal (self-explanatory) and customized (sender can determine how much he will spend for a transaction fee or how fast he would want the transaction to be.. 8) 8) 8)

8bits is not too much actually. but if it can add some security of some sort, then it's a good keeping for future use.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: niccanebalasca on December 28, 2018, 10:55:38 AM
Every transaction is total 776 bits, 97 bytes. Each block contains 50 transactions, one block every 5 minutes.
let's do the math. 50tx/block * 1block/(5mins)300
                   50 *  0.00333 = 0.167 TPS   
Don't kill us with this speed. How can we generate power? How can we mine effectively?
The 1.6kb block size is not followed. We now have 4.85kb block size.
We need clarification on this one.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 29, 2018, 01:46:24 AM
I need some explanation on this. The coin allocation on the whitepaper says that all coins will be generated from the genesis block. Currently in our test net phase, we have 421M TAUcoin in circulation and is still growing today because of referral system and pc mining. Then, during our mobile mining, coins generated will also come from the genesis block. All in all we will have a total of 20B TAUcoins in supply from two different genesis block.

Another thing is that pc miners already had an advantage due to abusive transactions. Though it has been removed in mobile mining features, if pc mining will not be stopped, it will have more miners than mobile ones.. It should be clear then where our coins must be generated. It will be an insult to future mobile miners if pc mining will gain the upper hand..

This could mean either one of two things. 1. Mobile mined coins will have a lower supply (e.g. 10B minus 421M  =  approx 9.5B TAUcoin) and web wallet coin generation will be stopped. 2. Coins from web wallet will be obsolete and team will compensate for that. I don't really understand but I think it is worth some answers.

Also, does TAUcoin have pre-mined coins? Where do admins get the rewards given to bounties and referral bonus.   
 
The current situation which is going on in testnet regarding miners am sure won't have negative effects on  mainnet. The so called abusive transactions as you named them are not affecting the network but rather the miners themselves. Why?

First of all, the mining powers cultivated during testnet won't be transferred to mainnet. "...The mobile mining will restart the power, for previous owned power, we plan to give one time reward according to the power number. we are developing new understanding of POT nature. On main net, it is more like digital asset now to focusing on decentralization. Restart mining weight is most easier for new consensus. yes lots to change here" iMorpheus stated. This was a conversation on discord channel, you can retrieve it over there under #Mining support channel to get more info.

The second thing is that, all the tx on TAU network cost us fees. No tx which will be freely executed and no 0 tx that will be possible. Take an example from myself, due to the tx I have accumulated in the need of raising the harvest power, the tx fee is now is high as 0.00393697 TAU. Let's do a simple maths here.

When I successful make 100,000 tx per day and each cost 0.00393697 TAU (100,000 x 0.00393697), I will incur to pay 393.697 TAU as tx fees still I can only mine 15-25 TAU per day (mind you, I will need to have more power thus, I will need to make more tx as well). Hence, for now TAU doesn't have a value as we are doing internal test, imagine we are in mainnet with same scene and each TAU cost 1$, (393.697 TAU x 1$ = 393.697$) and as return you get 15-25 TAU as mining reward (same as 15-25$), will you continue with this? I will surely don't abusive as it's more costing me rather than getting favour. I will advice making only meaningful tx.

The last thing is regarding the pre-mined coins, Am sure TAU network didn't and won't have such a thing. Consider the answer from one of the team members "the Genesis block of mainnet will contain the final balances from testnet" xlodx stated. (also via discord channel conversation.)

That's from my understanding and I hope others esp Sir iMorpheus will give us the more detailed explanations regarding the issues raised.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 29, 2018, 01:50:47 AM
There will be a category for this one brother. Priority (means fast; higher fee ), normal (self-explanatory) and customized (sender can determine how much he will spend for a transaction fee or how fast he would want the transaction to be.. 8) 8) 8)

8bits is not too much actually. but if it can add some security of some sort, then it's a good keeping for future use.
Thanks brother for the concrete answers. All the best and have a nice discussion time
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on December 29, 2018, 06:43:12 PM
allow me to response questions raised together, we have much progress and change in past week in the course to understand POT.
1. for expiration, BTC and ETH does not support that in protocol, but NXT does. We inherit from NXT to set it 12 hours, 144 blocks. For sender to verify true expiration, mathmatically you need to wait 288 blocks, 24 hours; when expiration time past mutable range twice. Mutable range is 144 blocks in TAU.
2. btc header hashing with nounce to generate high difficulty is used in BTC, however, TAU header hashing is for purpose of verifying highest difficulty chain, not generate difficulty. TAU difficulty is generated through public key signature continuously through transparent forging process. this is an complex process, not to go full description here, please see white paper. in short, we use header hashing and public key signature to both verify and generate difficulty to satisfy byzantine general.
3. using TPS to compare main-net is not scientific. main net priority is decentralized consensus. There are much easier way to scale TPS such as lightning network, TAU Pay solution, side chain and dex. in the other note, scarcity on main net space will make mining valuable thing to do.
4. 10 billion TAU coins is created in genesis block. 82% of them will distribute via faucet and bounty to community. 18% will be reward to foundation and investment into tau community startup. It is a big burden to distribute these coins fairly and provide a basic service to beginner to get coins. TAU community just need to trust foundation to stay focus on this.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on December 30, 2018, 02:48:48 PM
allow me to response questions raised together, we have much progress and change in past week in the course to understand POT.
1. for expiration, BTC and ETH does not support that in protocol, but NXT does. We inherit from NXT to set it 12 hours, 144 blocks. For sender to verify true expiration, mathmatically you need to wait 288 blocks, 24 hours; when expiration time past mutable range twice. Mutable range is 144 blocks in TAU.
2. btc header hashing with nounce to generate high difficulty is used in BTC, however, TAU header hashing is for purpose of verifying highest difficulty chain, not generate difficulty. TAU difficulty is generated through public key signature continuously through transparent forging process. this is an complex process, not to go full description here, please see white paper. in short, we use header hashing and public key signature to both verify and generate difficulty to satisfy byzantine general.
3. using TPS to compare main-net is not scientific. main net priority is decentralized consensus. There are much easier way to scale TPS such as lightning network, TAU Pay solution, side chain and dex. in the other note, scarcity on main net space will make mining valuable thing to do.
4. 10 billion TAU coins is created in genesis block. 82% of them will distribute via faucet and bounty to community. 18% will be reward to foundation and investment into tau community startup. It is a big burden to distribute these coins fairly and provide a basic service to beginner to get coins. TAU community just need to trust foundation to stay focus on this.
Thanks very much iMorpheus for the responses, these explanations are all fine with me, keep the good work
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Menma on December 31, 2018, 02:12:06 PM
The current situation which is going on in testnet regarding miners am sure won't have negative effects on  mainnet. The so called abusive transactions as you named them are not affecting the network but rather the miners themselves. Why?

First of all, the mining powers cultivated during testnet won't be transferred to mainnet. "...The mobile mining will restart the power, for previous owned power, we plan to give one time reward according to the power number. we are developing new understanding of POT nature. On main net, it is more like digital asset now to focusing on decentralization. Restart mining weight is most easier for new consensus. yes lots to change here" iMorpheus stated. This was a conversation on discord channel, you can retrieve it over there under #Mining support channel to get more info.

The second thing is that, all the tx on TAU network cost us fees. No tx which will be freely executed and no 0 tx that will be possible. Take an example from myself, due to the tx I have accumulated in the need of raising the harvest power, the tx fee is now is high as 0.00393697 TAU. Let's do a simple maths here.

When I successful make 100,000 tx per day and each cost 0.00393697 TAU (100,000 x 0.00393697), I will incur to pay 393.697 TAU as tx fees still I can only mine 15-25 TAU per day (mind you, I will need to have more power thus, I will need to make more tx as well). Hence, for now TAU doesn't have a value as we are doing internal test, imagine we are in mainnet with same scene and each TAU cost 1$, (393.697 TAU x 1$ = 393.697$) and as return you get 15-25 TAU as mining reward (same as 15-25$), will you continue with this? I will surely don't abusive as it's more costing me rather than getting favour. I will advice making only meaningful tx.

The last thing is regarding the pre-mined coins, Am sure TAU network didn't and won't have such a thing. Consider the answer from one of the team members "the Genesis block of mainnet will contain the final balances from testnet" xlodx stated. (also via discord channel conversation.)

That's from my understanding and I hope others esp Sir iMorpheus will give us the more detailed explanations regarding the issues raised.

Let's make your MATH a reality.
First, you cannot make 100k transactions on main net in a day.
 
1 block = 5mins
60mins  = 12 blocks
1 day   = 288 blocks
1 day   = 14,400 transactions only.

Second, if we divide transaction fee , as reward, equally to the number of transactions a miner has, you'll get the same amount you spent.

10 miners = 1,440 transactions each
1,440 tx = 5.65 TAUcoins spent ( multiplied by 0.00393 as average)
Each mobile miner will spend around 6 TAUcoin as txs fee for 1,440 transactions and REWARD/MINE the same amount.
Except of course as time goes by coz not everyone will do mobile mining.

So the real question is, why is it that in pc mining, the txs spent is not equivalent to the reward being mined? This I am confused about.

A 100k power mining 15-25 TAUcoin per day is quite fishy. A 1M mining power will get 150-250 TAU daily. A 10M self power would eventually mine about 1500-2500 TAUcoins per day.  We only have 3M transactions and that would give us a total of 6m power. A 6M mining power in total would mine 900-1500 TAUcoins daily.

You know what's funny? TAUcoin has 420M coins. And that will take ( 420M divided by 1500 TAU mined daily) roughly 280,000 days to mine. Not only that, 3M transactions would only generate 3M taucoins also, if tx fee was 1TAucoin each.  ;D ;D ;D

Pls do correct me if I was wrong with my computation.  Nonetheless, it would seem just logical for me to think that the tx spent will be the rewards received.

Holla Amigos Amigas!!!
Congrats TAUcoin for 2019!!! Love love love..
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Kriptolab on January 01, 2019, 11:44:27 AM
Let's make your MATH a reality.
First, you cannot make 100k transactions on main net in a day.
 
1 block = 5mins
60mins  = 12 blocks
1 day   = 288 blocks
1 day   = 14,400 transactions only.

Second, if we divide transaction fee , as reward, equally to the number of transactions a miner has, you'll get the same amount you spent.

10 miners = 1,440 transactions each
1,440 tx = 5.65 TAUcoins spent ( multiplied by 0.00393 as average)
Each mobile miner will spend around 6 TAUcoin as txs fee for 1,440 transactions and REWARD/MINE the same amount.
Except of course as time goes by coz not everyone will do mobile mining.

So the real question is, why is it that in pc mining, the txs spent is not equivalent to the reward being mined? This I am confused about.

A 100k power mining 15-25 TAUcoin per day is quite fishy. A 1M mining power will get 150-250 TAU daily. A 10M self power would eventually mine about 1500-2500 TAUcoins per day.  We only have 3M transactions and that would give us a total of 6m power. A 6M mining power in total would mine 900-1500 TAUcoins daily.

You know what's funny? TAUcoin has 420M coins. And that will take ( 420M divided by 1500 TAU mined daily) roughly 280,000 days to mine. Not only that, 3M transactions would only generate 3M taucoins also, if tx fee was 1TAucoin each.  ;D ;D ;D

Pls do correct me if I was wrong with my computation.  Nonetheless, it would seem just logical for me to think that the tx spent will be the rewards received.

Holla Amigos Amigas!!!
Congrats TAUcoin for 2019!!! Love love love..
It's sure and I know that on mainnet its not possible, also, don't be scared with my previous maths! I can get 15-20 tau per day but for full miner may get more than that, mind you the maths I did based on my own finding, its not a base of the reality. But thanks you have shown us the reality
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: zityx23 on January 01, 2019, 04:32:01 PM
Quite an astounding figure!!! Even so, main net is the real thing and when it arrives, only then will our speculation be surprised. TAU mWallet and Tau Pay will be an amazing combination for this. Considering every region has its own unique business to connect tau with, it will give amounts of rewards to mobile miners, which in turn will also welcome more miners in the future. These kinds of interaction and interconnection is very rare in other currencies. I'm so glad I'm an early bird on this project.

IloveTAUcoin
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Mr. Wolf on January 02, 2019, 06:27:35 AM
https://medium.com/@davidwu_30530/new-idea-the-total-consensus-strength-tcs-among-pow-pos-and-pot-f24c7949b93f

TOTAL CONSENSUS STRENGTH between POW, POS and POT

It is quite clever and in some ways more facetious to define stability of a blockchain or a consensus by  means of miners and average mining power. Many, in my opinion, in the crypto space will debate just on the definition alone but granting that there is no other way to measure consensus strength, let me try to engage myself with, and I will follow through with the wonderful article our beloved Founder wrote.

POW, though permission-less, requires miners for a greater computational power to solve the equation and get the reward. As the puzzle becomes harder each block difficulty adjustment, it is necessary for low-budget-miners to drop their tool and stop the mining process. This enables the powerful, the rich and the prominent to stay on the market and "centralize" the whole mining system. One click and it will give them power to attack, most likely in the far future, when an antminer will mine only 1 satoshi per year.   ;D ;D ;D

By definition, POW will have a constant or fixed amount of consensus strength. As computational power immensely increases over time, a decrease in miners is conspicuous as the amount of mining power is inversely proportional to the number of possible miners in the market.  ;)

POS, though permission-less and more energy efficient than POW, requires  miners to compete on holdings of the coins to get the reward. It promotes stagnancy of the coins whether it has a real-world use case or not. Sad thing is, a greedy miner will just buy and keep on buying coins sold in order to gain more power from mining. And, as with POW, the low-budget miners will be forced to sell their coins for profit and stop mining.

By definition, POS will also have a fixed amount of consensus strength.  ;)

POT, on the other hand, does not require miners a powerful machine to mine, great energy to support mining and competition on holdings of coins to get the reward. Rather, miners will compete through the number of transactions in the blockchain. Thinking long in the future, since mining will be as easy as eating a pie, anyone and everyone will be encouraged to mine thus further increasing the strength of the consensus.

By definition, POT wins the race over POW and POS when it comes to Total Consensus Strength.   ;)
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Menma on January 03, 2019, 08:32:28 AM
https://medium.com/@davidwu_30530/proof-of-transaction-to-fight-51-attack-the-older-the-more-secure-chain-is-ee1caabcffb9

TOTAL CONSENSUS STRENGTH between POW, POS and POT

It is quite clever and in some ways more facetious to define stability of a blockchain or a consensus by  means of miners and average mining power. Many, in my opinion, in the crypto space will debate just on the definition alone but granting that there is no other way to measure consensus strength, let me try to engage myself with, and I will follow through with the wonderful article our beloved Founder wrote.

POW, though permission-less, requires miners for a greater computational power to solve the equation and get the reward. As the puzzle becomes harder each block difficulty adjustment, it is necessary for low-budget-miners to drop their tool and stop the mining process. This enables the powerful, the rich and the prominent to stay on the market and "centralize" the whole mining system. One click and it will give them power to attack, most likely in the far future, when an antminer will mine only 1 satoshi per year.   ;D ;D ;D

By definition, POW will have a constant or fixed amount of consensus strength. As computational power immensely increases over time, a decrease in miners is conspicuous as the amount of mining power is inversely proportional to the number of possible miners in the market.  ;)

POS, though permission-less and more energy efficient than POW, requires  miners to compete on holdings of the coins to get the reward. It promotes stagnancy of the coins whether it has a real-world use case or not. Sad thing is, a greedy miner will just buy and keep on buying coins sold in order to gain more power from mining. And, as with POW, the low-budget miners will be forced to sell their coins for profit and stop mining.

By definition, POS will also have a fixed amount of consensus strength.  ;)

POT, on the other hand, does not require miners a powerful machine to mine, great energy to support mining and competition on holdings of coins to get the reward. Rather, miners will compete through the number of transactions in the blockchain. Thinking long in the future, since mining will be as easy as eating a pie, anyone and everyone will be encouraged to mine thus further increasing the strength of the consensus.

By definition, POT wins the race over POW and POS when it comes to Total Consensus Strength.   ;)

I would like to use this reading and have to agree to most of it. There could be more ways to define Total Consensus Strength but since you didn't introduce a few, I will not give my opinion regarding that as well.  Haha Let me ride with your story and add a little seasoning to it.

TOTAL CONSENSUS STRENGTH between POW, POS and POT

Even if most of the stated information above is true, it still wouldn't express a total superiority of POT over POW and POS when it comes to TCS. Though miners and mining power is our discussion, there must be something deeper when we talk about this two areas in blockchain. If you haven't realized yet, mining power is directly related and being affected by the miners themselves. And so the determinants of these two factors lies behind all of it. What could it be? It is the value of a coin. How is it going to be used in the blockchain economy. How is it going to change the way we look at currency itself. So value is oftentimes intertwined with price and vice versa. We'll not talk about the deeper difference of these two but a basic info will do.

Price is what you pay for a coin. Value is what the dealer would pay you to buy the coin. It could be a product or a service or just anything in the internet and/or physical world. Hope that is simple as it sounds.

SO a miner would have in mind why would he be mining for this coins and what future profits will he get from it.

In POW, people will mine because, first, of its limited supply and second of its harder-to-mine-in-the-future feature. Bitcoin as an example. Limited supply COULD mean increase in price in the future thus a POW miner would mine a POW coin for future profit. If such definition as stated by the Founder is necessary to define TCS, POW will definitely be going upwards gradually but consistently as time goes by.

POS miners would almost do the same as POW miners. Treating POS coins as having the same value as POW coins, miners will then begin to realize that the longer they mine, the more competition they will have, thus reducing their chance to get the reward and will require themselves to buy another set of coins to strengthen their holdings/mining power. Eventually, POS miners will shift to a NEW COIN with LESSER difficulty due to unstable profit in the OLDER coin. Thus, TCS in a certain POS coin will gradually decrease over time. No matter how much the value of a coin is.

POT. Now this is exciting! Why? Because we don't have any date yet! Hahah All we have are speculation based on theories and beta-tests. With my high-grade intuition, in POT, such as Taucoin as the first (I think),  will produce more and more miners as the days go by. And because the distribution is linear and equal among transactors and adaptable to any person in Planet Earth,  hyperinflation is very minimal or near zero, therefore, mass adoption is super fast. Until all coins are mined, the TCS of POT will increase dramatically. Hooray!!! But of course, unless there is no use of the coin, people will stop mining it therefore TCS will drop.

Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: niccanebalasca on January 04, 2019, 11:15:51 PM
Total Consensus strength is really a new idea and a new term. Although I tried to look for meaning to this in the internet, I can't find a pick and a reliable source. Therefore I'll stick to the given definition where it is easier to give inputs.
 
Before anything else, I would like to give questions

1. How do we compute for the number of miners? Do we count by the # of people? # of machines? What extent exactly?
   In POW, there are many different kinds of machine to choose from. So dependeing on what one use, numbers vary.
   Another thing is that there are many people who group together to form a company/community focused on mining. How do we count
   miners then,, by individual or as a group?
   So an individual may hold 1000 ASIC wares to mine whereas another "group", composed of 20 people also has 1000 ASIC units for
   mining. How many miners would that be? 2 or 21?

   Same goes for POS. IF anyone is familiar with the word "corpo" from the word "corporations", like in the example above, people might
   choose to group themselves
   together to garner the least amount of coins needed or the most # of coins possible to mine or control the reward system.

   In POT, it is very obvious that "every wallet is a miner" therefore miners will not choose to group but mine on their own therefore increasing the # of miners
   EXPONENTIALLY.

2. Is there a definitive and equal comparison of a mining power from POW, POS and POT? DO they have the same measure of quantity? 


These two questions above are important to know so that I can provide details of my share here.
For the meanwhile, I will deduce my comprehension by this few facts.

It would be bias for POT to conclude that Total Consensus Strength will be determined by the number of miners multiplied by the # of mining power. For one reason, that is,
POT will generate more individual miners than POW and POS combined. So the question now stands as to "if POT will serve as a global use to render its use case" so that miners will continue to mine these coins
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on January 06, 2019, 07:13:09 AM
On the speed of main net, we are not trying to compete to other projects, it is design selection focus and tradeoff decision. To achieve decentralization without censorship as primary goal, there is limitation on the speed of the ledger. TAUcoin choose to reduce the speed, and bet on future mobile network will support us fork up to higher speed upon community agreement. During the meantime, TAU PAY will serve as backup option to instant payment.
TCS, total consensus strength, is a concept we use to understand POT, and what POT will really bring us differently from POW and POS, and why these differences are important. in nutshell, assume POT is same power as BTC today, we will found BTC strength is based on an arm race of real world power which is always up and down. but TAU will be stable and upward based on historical transaction numbers.
In terms of how to compute miners and power between POTPOWPOS, it is very hard to compare in detail quantity now. I will describe POT has best chances to recruit higher miners participation without working and risking(staking), isn't this fun?
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Menma on January 07, 2019, 05:20:18 AM
On the speed of main net, we are not trying to compete to other projects, it is design selection focus and tradeoff decision. To achieve decentralization without censorship as primary goal, there is limitation on the speed of the ledger. TAUcoin choose to reduce the speed, and bet on future mobile network will support us fork up to higher speed upon community agreement. During the meantime, TAU PAY will serve as backup option to instant payment.
TCS, total consensus strength, is a concept we use to understand POT, and what POT will really bring us differently from POW and POS, and why these differences are important. in nutshell, assume POT is same power as BTC today, we will found BTC strength is based on an arm race of real world power which is always up and down. but TAU will be stable and upward based on historical transaction numbers.
In terms of how to compute miners and power between POTPOWPOS, it is very hard to compare in detail quantity now. I will describe POT has best chances to recruit higher miners participation without working and risking(staking), isn't this fun?

I do very well agree. The lower the entry barrier for mining is, the more miners will come. and the more miners there are, faster adoption is easy. With equal distribution of miners around the world, price manipulation is very hard and it will give stability to its price. This, my opinion. 
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: niccanebalasca on January 09, 2019, 03:14:37 AM
I'm thinking of the future.
I think mobile mining will consume 2GB of space after 4 years of mining.
It will be a burden for a 4GB ram phone
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Mr. Wolf on January 10, 2019, 11:15:48 AM
On the speed of main net, we are not trying to compete to other projects, it is design selection focus and tradeoff decision. To achieve decentralization without censorship as primary goal, there is limitation on the speed of the ledger. TAUcoin choose to reduce the speed, and bet on future mobile network will support us fork up to higher speed upon community agreement. During the meantime, TAU PAY will serve as backup option to instant payment.
TCS, total consensus strength, is a concept we use to understand POT, and what POT will really bring us differently from POW and POS, and why these differences are important. in nutshell, assume POT is same power as BTC today, we will found BTC strength is based on an arm race of real world power which is always up and down. but TAU will be stable and upward based on historical transaction numbers.
In terms of how to compute miners and power between POTPOWPOS, it is very hard to compare in detail quantity now. I will describe POT has best chances to recruit higher miners participation without working and risking(staking), isn't this fun?

I see. While others are competing with sheer power and speed of transaction, TAU is more directed towards total decentralization. An agency we need so much these days. Stability is a good thing to the network as it also brings strength altogether to the blockchain.

I am very excited for the main net. We can have fair and easy and fun mining at last. We hope all the best for the developers.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on January 12, 2019, 10:06:24 PM
After 4 years, 5G is there and phone will be more powerful. 2GB is on storage not on memory. so I believe TAU mining will be still little impact on a phone. in 4 years, 1TB storage phone will be standard, we only ask for couple GB.

Agree with Mr. wolf, we rebrand TAU to "TRUE ASSET UNIT", decentralized and mobile. this is very unique. None of current coins is truly on mobile mining.
thanks Menma for join.
We spend 2 days on solving "mobile mining" behind firewall NAT. All crypto mining i see today require a real ip address, however all cell phones does not have a real IP, they are using NAT public IP in each connection. we need to adopt UDP hole punching to allow cell phone community with each other for consensus.
So our major innovation includes behind NAT p2p networking and POT block design.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: imorpheus on January 12, 2019, 10:51:20 PM
In my knowledge, all coin mining requires public IP address for nodes to communicate with each others on IP network, that is Internet. It is required for BTC, ETC, EOS and all as I know. On today’s Internet, only server has public IP, and blockchain network consensus is really built on “server to server”. You wallet is a client connecting to one of those servers, therefore wallet is not decentralized neither have the full picture of the pubic ledger to running by itself.
Clearly, good wallet shall run on mobile phones. However, mobile phone does not have “real IP address” due to IPv4 network is not able to provide that many IP addresses. IPv6 needs many years to come, so that the mobile industry using NAT, network address translation, to make many phones sharing one public IP and giving cell phone internal IP address behind firewall. Without IP address, mobile phone can only be client and not able to be a full mining node on public internet. Different cell phones behind firewall need centralized server to communicate to each other such as you see in whatsup and wechat.
TAUcoin is solving this industry bottleneck, to build true “client to client, server-less” networking allow blockchain to be maintained on mobile phone systems without any super node software. Every wallet is an full node running on mobile phone behind NAT firewall using internal IP address. So that we makes “server”, “client” and “wallet” all the same to achieve true decentalizaton.
How are we going to do that? Please stay tuned on TAU mainnet.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Mr. Wolf on January 14, 2019, 10:39:35 AM
While networks today are using NAT because of security, it is more complicated than we thought. Having a single global IP address is very complicated especially when connecting to P2P networks. Incoming packets may cause confusion as to which client it is directed to and may cause for the packets to be dropped or unaccepted. While UDP hole punching is the most common way to circumnavigate behind NAT, it certainly needs a third party host to verify packets or to establish connections between the clients. Some says it is possible to do that without a third party host but I guess it hasn't been tested and proven yet.

All in all, POT, mobile mining and circumventing NAT with UDP hole punching is really a breakthrough in the blockchain tech, something that is very unique to TAU. We do hope for it to progress more and succeed to create an ideal cryptocurrency.
Title: Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
Post by: Menma on January 15, 2019, 06:51:01 AM
After 4 years, 5G is there and phone will be more powerful. 2GB is on storage not on memory. so I believe TAU mining will be still little impact on a phone. in 4 years, 1TB storage phone will be standard, we only ask for couple GB.

Agree with Mr. wolf, we rebrand TAU to "TRUE ASSET UNIT", decentralized and mobile. this is very unique. None of current coins is truly on mobile mining.
thanks Menma for join.
We spend 2 days on solving "mobile mining" behind firewall NAT. All crypto mining i see today require a real ip address, however all cell phones does not have a real IP, they are using NAT public IP in each connection. we need to adopt UDP hole punching to allow cell phone community with each other for consensus.
So our major innovation includes behind NAT p2p networking and POT block design.

This got me to thinking. Here's my question and probably my suggestion altogether.

1. POT is a little less than POW (probably, something like a divided POW) or a mini version of POW. If any small memory space is needed to mine TAU, as such in POT, then probably 10years, or 20 years from now it would then require powerful mobile phones to minE, that is if TAU is still being used at that time. Memory space is still memory space, 
2. Remind me if I'm mistaken about this. How can "new" miners be sure that they can still compete in mining given that previous miners has already accumulated much transactions in advance? Is there a reset function of records of transactions or like a randomized version of who will be able to get the "harvest"?
3. (Future ) Is it possible to mine TAU without the internet? (looks absurd. ) If not then is it possible to do a transaction without internet connection?

Thank you in advance for answers and clarifications.