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Author Topic: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months  (Read 10424 times)

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Offline vncntluv

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #45 about: November 20, 2018, 08:08:17 AM »
I love the feedback on keeping us focused and simple as basic coin settlement layer.

A key decision is made and very bold. "reduce the block size to 10kb" aims to support massive decentralized mobile nodes mining.
Peer to peer communication among millions of mobile devices require smaller block size. This is to increase data availability, resulting to provide high security. we believe security is upmost importance, given the recent BCH 51% attack show. We adjust our spirit to "light and secure". this puts us in a very unique position comparing to other coins increasing block size, which will cause centralization, due to less nodes have full capture of blocks on time. The reason for 10kb is average ethereum block is 50kb. As an experimental currency, we want to start with high security, 10kb makes us look not sexy, but 10kb blocks size in a pure mobile environment is very cool.
what is your feedback?
The main thing block size does is to prevent denial of service attacks on the network. To start with 10kb block size is a unique idea and real decentralization but I think it comes with higher translation fee and slows down the network as it grows that is why the best option be to implement is the "dynamic Block size" which implies that the block size limit changes by itself and is dependent on the transaction volume at any given time. It is well known that transactions will grow often, A blockchain-based network that uses a dynamic block size limit has an advantage of being less prone to a slowdown in its network and the transaction fee correponds with the growth and the growth calls for real scalability for future purposes if it's truly an alternative to what we already have in the world of crypto currency.

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #45 about: November 20, 2018, 08:08:17 AM »

Offline imorpheus

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #46 about: November 21, 2018, 09:10:58 AM »
10kb per minute on settlement layer is new but good for decentralization. The triangle, "decentralizing, security and scale", we would choose first two and trade off scaling. the future world in my imaging will be major application such as search engine, social and commerce running on dPOS semi-decentral consensus to gain scaling. TAU could use side-chain to settle with dPOS tokens to gain speed and other features. 10KB per minute is possible to gain millions of miners to join. so does crypto currency need millions of miner to protect it? or just less than 100 miners can hold the trust of the world?
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Offline Kriptolab

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #47 about: November 21, 2018, 07:10:35 PM »
The main thing block size does is to prevent denial of service attacks on the network. To start with 10kb block size is a unique idea and real decentralization but I think it comes with higher translation fee and slows down the network as it grows that is why the best option be to implement is the "dynamic Block size" which implies that the block size limit changes by itself and is dependent on the transaction volume at any given time. It is well known that transactions will grow often, A blockchain-based network that uses a dynamic block size limit has an advantage of being less prone to a slowdown in its network and the transaction fee correponds with the growth and the growth calls for real scalability for future purposes if it's truly an alternative to what we already have in the world of crypto currency.
To understand this, consider a real example in a TAU blockchain with 10kb blocks every 1 minute. In order for nodes on the network to stay in sync with the chain, they will need to download and verify the validity of 10kb worth of blockdata every 1 min. Any nodes which cannot do this, will decrease the 'effective throughput' of the network (network efficiency), of which we don't expect this to happen from POT.

So now, consider what happens if you decrease the block interval to 1second. Suddenly, more (lots) of nodes that could download and process that data within 1 min will no longer be able to keep up with the rest of the network, since they now only have 1 second to do the same. Thus, our 'effective throughput' has decreased, since a much smaller percent of nodes will be able to engage and contribute to the network. But TAU devs aim at full nodes functioning.

This his I got the concept behind decreasing the block size. Any ideas? I hope for further debate on this
📌Kriptolab📌 
🏆TAU - True Asset Unit || The Decentralized Coin || An Experimental Proof of Transaction Coin On Mobile Mining || POT🏆

Offline Kriptolab

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #48 about: November 21, 2018, 07:19:15 PM »
10kb per minute on settlement layer is new but good for decentralization. The triangle, "decentralizing, security and scale", we would choose first two and trade off scaling. the future world in my imaging will be major application such as search engine, social and commerce running on dPOS semi-decentral consensus to gain scaling. TAU could use side-chain to settle with dPOS tokens to gain speed and other features. 10KB per minute is possible to gain millions of miners to join. so does crypto currency need millions of miner to protect it? or just less than 100 miners can hold the trust of the world?
I agree with the new TAU tech on the settlement layer.....also the side-chain is important to be utilised as per dPOS proved good to get attached and utilize our blockchain due to its efficiency in terms of decentralization....

Again comes a question-----if we have smaller and fixed block size of 10kb, what will be the effects when dPOS tokens using our blockchain (side-chain)  have larger block size? Say it like 1mb-10mb size of their block or more

To the miners, only few can be important, doesn't need such a huge/big number of miners, taking an example, in a Bitcoin network, there are 200k miners ( considering the slushpool) and are threatening the network.......targeting more miners like 1M is important for more network security but even less than that can suffice the need.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 07:24:01 PM by Kriptolab »
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Offline imorpheus

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #49 about: November 22, 2018, 07:54:55 AM »
dPOS can do huge blocks in short time, that is why they are better for dAPP to operate. settlement layer require decentralized participation, tau is more focus on the "decentralized" part of the tri-angle. DPoS is on scale and consensus with a bit decentralized. it is complicated to debate how many miners are enough, i do not know either, how many TV channels do we really need? 8, 100 or a million?
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Offline imorpheus

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #50 about: November 22, 2018, 07:57:31 AM »
10kb/minute will bring us an experiment to test the boundary of how many miners is technical possible in today's network.  10kb/10 seconds feels hard for cell phone, 100kb/minute might be next step. but for experiment, we want to start from small 10kb/minute. to make 10kb to 100kb/minute will need a hard fork, people are doing that all the times.
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Offline Kriptolab

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #51 about: November 22, 2018, 03:30:00 PM »
dPOS can do huge blocks in short time, that is why they are better for dAPP to operate. settlement layer require decentralized participation, tau is more focus on the "decentralized" part of the tri-angle. DPoS is on scale and consensus with a bit decentralized. it is complicated to debate how many miners are enough, i do not know either, how many TV channels do we really need? 8, 100 or a million?
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣 let's have a target of having 1MM TV channels (users/miners) 😂😭😂😭😂😭, as we add more channels, we will evaluate how secure our network is and can have a decision to go more, or make any adjustment----POT

⚙⚙⚙ But devs should not forget this: high tx rates matters, which means TAU #Blockchain should be prepared to handle large amounts of transactions and in a fast but secured manner ---- POT⚙⚙⚙

We are going to meet with huge mass adoption as more people will need to focus and utilize the new technology----POT
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Offline zityx23

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #52 about: November 22, 2018, 04:32:41 PM »
To understand this, consider a real example in a TAU blockchain with 10kb blocks every 1 minute. In order for nodes on the network to stay in sync with the chain, they will need to download and verify the validity of 10kb worth of blockdata every 1 min. Any nodes which cannot do this, will decrease the 'effective throughput' of the network (network efficiency), of which we don't expect this to happen from POT.

So now, consider what happens if you decrease the block interval to 1second. Suddenly, more (lots) of nodes that could download and process that data within 1 min will no longer be able to keep up with the rest of the network, since they now only have 1 second to do the same. Thus, our 'effective throughput' has decreased, since a much smaller percent of nodes will be able to engage and contribute to the network. But TAU devs aim at full nodes functioning.
 
This his I got the concept behind decreasing the block size. Any ideas? I hope for further debate on this

Now it becomes a matter of block size and block time interval. The logic could be simple: More blocks mean more transaction. More transaction mean more coins being mined. As it was with bitcoin debate, it may sound appealing and good on paper but it "may" generate considerable network-wise issues and unintended consequences. for a POT as consensus mechanism, we cannot create a strong triangle when we compromise one by strengthening the other. And with this as experimental, it makes it more crucial.. especially in the early stages.

There could be various methods and alternatives in solving this equation. If scaling becomes the problem, we "could" not ignore the idea of decreasing the block size but it may pose other problem. Why not the earlier suggestion of adapting a dynamic block size? Either way, with this as base of concept, one can see the future as having higher transaction fees than we have now and a possible slower blockchain because of congestion. this could benefit mobile miners though.

Offline imorpheus

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #53 about: November 24, 2018, 10:33:08 AM »
⚙⚙⚙ But devs should not forget this: high tx rates matters, which means TAU #Blockchain should be prepared to handle large amounts of transactions and in a fast but secured manner ---- POT⚙⚙⚙
Giving up high volume transaction numbers on main net is a big bet. Most of startup project dares not do that, but Satoshi did it through bitcoin in return for consensus. One blockchain to satisfy all DCS (decentralized, consensus and scaling) is impossible, there is math proof on that. One ecosystem of block chains can do that. Assume there is an ecosystem in the future, all we need to do is to pick up a position. TAUcoin picks up "decentralization" and consensus, which force us to run mobile mining and 10kb block size, no high volume as result.
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Offline imorpheus

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #54 about: November 24, 2018, 10:36:08 AM »
Now it becomes a matter of block size and block time interval. The logic could be simple: More blocks mean more transaction. More transaction mean more coins being mined. As it was with bitcoin debate, it may sound appealing and good on paper but it "may" generate considerable network-wise issues and unintended consequences. for a POT as consensus mechanism, we cannot create a strong triangle when we compromise one by strengthening the other. And with this as experimental, it makes it more crucial.. especially in the early stages.

There could be various methods and alternatives in solving this equation. If scaling becomes the problem, we "could" not ignore the idea of decreasing the block size but it may pose other problem. Why not the earlier suggestion of adapting a dynamic block size? Either way, with this as base of concept, one can see the future as having higher transaction fees than we have now and a possible slower blockchain because of congestion. this could benefit mobile miners though.
I love this idea "benefiting" the miner ... i think we will see that once our nodes released, all the source code is on GitHub now, feel free to check it out.
iMorpheus
TAU - True Asset Unit - Mobile and Decentral

Offline zityx23

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #55 about: November 28, 2018, 01:47:18 AM »
Say we have 100k mobile miners after main net launch, that would really increase traffic and slow down transaction. At the current rate of tx fees, it  might become 10x and miners will surely benefit from it. And more no-coiners will eventually become miners too thus increasing further the tx in the blockchain.

Can I suggest that we lock up each 10% of the total coins for certain start-ups and another 10% just for the exchange. In reality, exchanges do a lot to a coins' price and is, to every extent, dependable on btc's pump and dump. For example we lock up 1B for taunopoly, 1B for each project, (like the one I suggested privately with Zi Ren and bmath) and others to be swapped for that specific use only and 1B for the exchange. (Ratio can be further discussed). The main purpose of this is to prevent a potential dump of hoarders and big players in the market. Taucoin is designed for transactions and for a majority of the coins to be stucked at the exchange will do no good to the community and miners themselves. With this, it could further boost the use of taucoins-swapped-coins in their local or worldwide areas. 

What do you guys think of this?

Offline vncntluv

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #56 about: November 28, 2018, 04:25:30 AM »
Say we have 100k mobile miners after main net launch, that would really increase traffic and slow down transaction. At the current rate of tx fees, it  might become 10x and miners will surely benefit from it. And more no-coiners will eventually become miners too thus increasing further the tx in the blockchain.

Can I suggest that we lock up each 10% of the total coins for certain start-ups and another 10% just for the exchange. In reality, exchanges do a lot to a coins' price and is, to every extent, dependable on btc's pump and dump. For example we lock up 1B for taunopoly, 1B for each project, (like the one I suggested privately with Zi Ren and bmath) and others to be swapped for that specific use only and 1B for the exchange. (Ratio can be further discussed). The main purpose of this is to prevent a potential dump of hoarders and big players in the market. Taucoin is designed for transactions and for a majority of the coins to be stucked at the exchange will do no good to the community and miners themselves. With this, it could further boost the use of taucoins-swapped-coins in their local or worldwide areas. 

What do you guys think of this?
With block size of 10kb, 100k possible mobile miners, increased transaction fee is beneficial to miners and Taucoin. Using Bitcoin as a case study, people invest huge amount on mining rigs and ASICS and still pay huge fee on each transaction in respect to the volume of bitcoin in tx. The transaction fee on 10kb block size would still considerably be an innovation for the people and real definition of decentralization compared to the huge amount of Fiat prospective miners put in buying graphic cards and ASICS that becomes less/not profitable as hashrate increases.

Offline zityx23

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #57 about: November 28, 2018, 07:22:09 AM »
The thing is, TAUcoin should deliver what BTC has not and probably cannot. A totally decentralized  and permission-less mining will really empower every owner of the coin. If everyone can  mine, I think tx fee will not prevail as the main concern. We are currently among the devs and founders who are truly doing favor for all crypto enthusiasts.

Offline vncntluv

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #58 about: November 28, 2018, 07:37:48 AM »
The thing is, TAUcoin should deliver what BTC has not and probably cannot. A totally decentralized  and permission-less mining will really empower every owner of the coin. If everyone can  mine, I think tx fee will not prevail as the main concern. We are currently among the devs and founders who are truly doing favor for all crypto enthusiasts.
True enough, but what I am still not very convinced about is the positive effect of easy mining on the value of Tau. Most people will only mine to dump and it will affect the price of Tau on daily basis. If everyone has access to mine and Tau has a decent exchange rate I think it will send other cryptos packing because no one ould want to buy other coin when Tau can be mined and exchange for other crypto currency. Still a lot of thing looking shady to me and I need someone with a constructive criticism to tackle how this will make Taucoin exceptional.

Offline Oluwastar

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Re: "Proof of Transaction" consensus debate - 10 million TAU 12 months
« Reply #59 about: November 28, 2018, 09:54:50 AM »
sure ill go for it to

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